Airlines Vs Fractional

[rajflyboy]

Dude >>> I guess I can't help It If you can't read!

 

[Lrjet55]

Sam Fisher,

I make no claims to have worked at a regional or with ALPA. I know one thing for sure, regionals will NEVER make any money because ALPA will never fight for you. Regional pilots will spend 15 years working before they ever reach 6 figures. I will agree that ALPA will save your job but were in this for money and security.

 

[Dash8]

ExpressJet has had the Director of Representation for ALPA as their professional negotiator/attorney for the past 3 years, since before 9/11 and the furloughs. He is the #1 attorney at ALPA and a "regional" has him full time. Not bad in my opinion. Are you sure ALPA still doesn't care about the small jet carriers?

Again, your arguments, while you seem to mean well, lack any sort of logical thought nor do they make sense to me.

Sam

could you possibly BE anymore of a union patsy?
alpa has consistantly pushed the regionals and their interests aside in favor of the mainlines especially with regards to us "bastard" prop flying wholly-owneds (but of course that must not be true for those flying the allmighty jet, according to you)

we even have an actual, no baloney, alpa national officer on our seniority list, yet we've still been essentially ignored, so don't even try to tell me that alpa isn't a duplicitous and even mildly corrupt organization, that most certianly does NOT look out for the entirety of its constituency.

to the frac guys, a word of advice, stay the h3ll away from alpa.
you could possibly get a decent mec locally, but alpa nat'l only cares about the big change they get from the mainlines.

 

[Lrjet55]

Luckily we are Teamsters. We will see what we do or dont get. Our MEC is showing proof of life and that they may just be on the ball.

I dont like to argue with regional guys because I have not been there but I would be willing to be this sam guy got to his regional with 300 hours and knows no different. There isnt anything wrong with that but we all have to be open minded.
My frax, union isnt better than your regional because...etc.

Lastly having some

#1 attorney at ALPA

,

Director of Representation for ALPA as their professional negotiator/attorney

again doesnt mean a darn thing. I hate to be rude or sound condesceding but do you think Mr. almighty is going to get you better wages or wok rules. You WILL NOT get more than COMAIR or PIEDMONT. Yeah, no!

The fact that you have one of the top guys means, simply and read nothing into it, he was the only person available and he was ASSIGNED to you.

"He represents all that is soulless and worng!"
http://funwavs.com/wavfile.php?quote=2282&sound=363

 

[Sam Fisher]

Sam Fisher,

I make no claims to have worked at a regional or with ALPA. I know one thing for sure, regionals will NEVER make any money because ALPA will never fight for you. Regional pilots will spend 15 years working before they ever reach 6 figures. I will agree that ALPA will save your job but were in this for money and security.

If you have no actual experience, how can you be so sure of this statement?

Rome wasn't built in a day and because the major airlines refused to fly these practice jets 10 years ago, this legacy now requires those of us at this level to slowly raise the bar continously over time in order to increase the overall level of compensation and work rules.

You still haven't told me who "ALPA" is. As a matter of fact, no one has answered that question. Is it some grand master entity? Some Wizard of Oz? Nope. ALPA is only as strong as your individual MEC, and in some cases, the coordination of individual MEC's amongst each other....such as what you see with Mesaba, Pinnacle and NWA right now with the Mesaba strike looming.

Sorry, but you can't just negotiate $60/hour pay rates to $120/hour pay rates over night. That takes time...and pilot groups willing to hold the line and increase it...and NOT settle for less than what the leader has. Read: MESA.

Sam

 

[Sam Fisher]

could you possibly BE anymore of a union patsy?
alpa has consistantly pushed the regionals and their interests aside in favor of the mainlines especially with regards to us "bastard" prop flying wholly-owneds (but of course that must not be true for those flying the allmighty jet, according to you)

we even have an actual, no baloney, alpa national officer on our seniority list, yet we've still been essentially ignored, so don't even try to tell me that alpa isn't a duplicitous and even mildly corrupt organization, that most certianly does NOT look out for the entirety of its constituency.

to the frac guys, a word of advice, stay the h3ll away from alpa.
you could possibly get a decent mec locally, but alpa nat'l only cares about the big change they get from the mainlines.

Dash, sorry that ALG hasn't worked out for you and that Matt Kernan isn't living up to your expectations. If you have an issue with him, take it up with him. No need to slander his name on a public board.

You said, "you could get a decent mec locally, but..." Dude, that MEC you refer to is made up of that particular airline's pilots. Has nothing to do with national. And national won't change until people elect LEC leaders with some sack who will change things at the BOD. Apparently you have very little understanding of how the process actually works. It is a MEMBER-DRIVEN organization. NOT top down as you might think. Duane Woerth isn't some deity or king. He doesn't have the power to make all RJ pilots make six figures over night. Come on...get real for a minute.

-Union Patsy

 

[Sam Fisher]

Luckily we are Teamsters. We will see what we do or dont get. Our MEC is showing proof of life and that they may just be on the ball.

I dont like to argue with regional guys because I have not been there but I would be willing to be this sam guy got to his regional with 300 hours and knows no different. There isnt anything wrong with that but we all have to be open minded.
My frax, union isnt better than your regional because...etc.

Is this the same Teamster's union that accidently filed with the NMB to open Section 6 negotiations between Teamsters and CHQ a few days late, thus causing the negotiations to start 1 year later? All unions have their problems. Are we to assume that the Teamsters aren't good because they represent an airline like Gulfstream who allows paying flight students to operate the right seat? Each individual carrier is different obviously.

I'm only on this thread because I see some misinformation and rhetoric that clearly lacks any factual basis whatsoever. What does my experience level have anything to do with ALPA and how it treats its MEC's? FYI - I was hired with well more than 300 hours and I'm well aware of what goes on at many different carriers. No need to assume anything about be me as we both know what assuming does...

Lastly having me , again doesnt mean a darn thing. I hate to be rude or sound condesceding but do you think Mr. almighty is going to get you better wages or wok rules. You WILL NOT get more than COMAIR or PIEDMONT. Yeah, no!

The fact that you have one of the top guys means, simply and read nothing into it, he was the only person available and he was ASSIGNED to you.

I never called him Mr Almighty. My point was that ALPA gave us a very important asset with this attorney. He's been around the block and is very talented. If you knew the full story, you'd know that he wasn't simply "assigned" to us. I am not under the misguided thought that he will get us "Comair rates or work rules" because I know better than that. MY NC will do that with the assistance of 2500 militant and angry pilots. That is where our leverage is. But having a top notch attorney helps.

So for those who came on here to flame me...simply because I take a different viewpoint - grow up.

Sam

 

[Dash8]

Dash, sorry that ALG hasn't worked out for you and that Matt Kernan isn't living up to your expectations. If you have an issue with him, take it up with him. No need to slander his name on a public board.

i wasn't slandering matt at all, go back and re-read my post, i have no issues with matt, don't really know him to have any issues with,
i was just stating a fact that having someone of such 'significance' in nat'l doesn't mean diddly for the pilot group he's a part of, that's all

as for alg or any other regional living up to anyones expectations, i think that line of thought is pretty universal now.
well except for those sell-out lowtimers going to mesa and the like just so they can be 'airline pilots' and fly 'jets'
now before you go off about my supposedly being jealous of jets or those kids, i could give a rats a55 about jets, i love the dash.
i just want to be able to have a decent quality of life (pay my bills on time, maybe put away a little every so often, and raise a family on)

You said, "you could get a decent mec locally, but..." Dude, that MEC you refer to is made up of that particular airline's pilots. Has nothing to do with national. And national won't change until people elect LEC leaders with some sack who will change things at the BOD. Apparently you have very little understanding of how the process actually works. It is a MEMBER-DRIVEN organization. NOT top down as you might think. Duane Woerth isn't some deity or king. He doesn't have the power to make all RJ pilots make six figures over night. Come on...get real for a minute.
-Union Patsy

this wasn't about nat'l having that kind of power to just decree how our qol and pay issues are, it was about their (as a group, no one specific person) inability to fairly represent all of their members, who you claim drive the organization (which i agree is true, unfortunately it's skewed to the side of mainline members at the expense of their respective regionals)
which results in essentially a class struggle between the regionals and the mainlines, that was my point, that nat'l could really care less about the regionals because they see the big $$$ coming from mainlines, which is why i called them duplicitous.

 

[Sam Fisher]

this wasn't about nat'l having that kind of power to just decree how our qol and pay issues are, it was about their (as a group, no one specific person) inability to fairly represent all of their members, who you claim drive the organization (which i agree is true, unfortunately it's skewed to the side of mainline members at the expense of their respective regionals)
which results in essentially a class struggle between the regionals and the mainlines, that was my point, that nat'l could really care less about the regionals because they see the big $$$ coming from mainlines, which is why i called them duplicitous.

Ref: the underlined phrase

Who is "national?" Who are you referring to and what power are you talking about? Every time I've needed something from national (pin code, membership card, ALPA pin, etc), I've called some staffer at national and gotten what I need. They never cared that I don't fly a bus or a boeing.

I guess my biggest confusion here is this notion that ALPA National doesn't care about us little people. What exactly does that mean? No one has given examples. And I don't buy the whole RJDC claim because again, ALPA National isn't involved there. It is an issue between Delta's MEC and Comair/ASA MEC's.

ALPA is nothing more than a toolbox for each individual MEC to utilize. If an MEC chooses to be ineffective in its use of the toolbox, then shame on them, but to go blame National is fruitless. National is a bunch of cubicle staffers who handle the behind the scenes work, some lawyers and analysts, and a few national officers with far less power than one thinks.

The "class struggle" will end when the numbers change dramatically...which they have been doing over the past 5 years. Furthermore, it would be irresponsible of me to not point out that I genuinely believe that ALPA as a whole (MEC's, national, etc) is finally trying to do something right with the "RJ epidemic" albeit 10 years too late.

Sam

 

[Live4flyng]

Who the He11 is Express Jet? Another miserable start-up flying Brazilla's some poor passenger gets the displeasure of riding on?

Is this the same Teamster's union that accidently filed with the NMB to open Section 6 negotiations between Teamsters and CHQ a few days late, thus causing the negotiations to start 1 year later?

Didn't you just get done giving a lecture to Dash8 about how unions are made up of it's members, and not ALPO? Sounds to me like this was a failure of it's MEC.