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Airlines Vs Fractional
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I agree with x402 about pushing the company forward into doing something about the contract. Why should the company do anything if they don't have to? Don't they already charge more in management fees to account for higher salaries, when since they are not paying these salaries, they are actually making more money that should rightfully be going directly to the pilots/ backbones of the company? It seems to me that the only way to make the company step up to bat is to use the threat of strike- follow the rules set up by the railways act and get the ball rolling for a strike vote and then cooling off period once it passes. Once the company sees the pilots are serious about a strike they will have to "bargain in good faith" and hopefully make something happen with a new contract. Does anyone really believe there is any incentive for the company to make it happen without the threat of an imminent strike? I'm interested in any other ideas for getting a company to do the right thing- it could help any pilot group trying to move their contracts forward. I'm at an airline and I would like to try the fractionals. I'm not active in my airlines union, but I pay attention to what it and others have done to move the bar forward and I've read Flying the Line to get some understanding into the history of how aviation unions have made gains for their members. I'm definitely no expert, but it sure seems to me that something more drastic needs to happen to force the companies hand. Good luck guys, I hope to join you soon.
ALPA has one big advantage over the Teamsters! It just happens to be one of the most important issues as well!
They will do about anything to protect your job in any kind of enforcement action against a pilot by the Company! You will have them on your side and they will send the attorney's too! I don't have a warm fuzzy when it comes to this issue with the teamsters!
At ALPA >> I figured the Union dues would at least offset Attorney fees if I ever needed them!
As far as ALPA's success with the majors >> hmmm let me see >> A bunch of guys are furloughed and ALPA's hurting for revenue! Thats Success!
As far as being a Captain at a Regional >>> A few years back you could make it to the left seat in no time at many companies. Now obviously it will be a wait!
NETJETS could be a great place to work. I think we have a lot more issues other than money! The puzzle palace is way too inefficient! And we end up getting the run around on the road because of it! This ticks me off on a daily basis. The solution is staring Management folks right in the face but they for some reason will not fix it!
They need to make the Schedulers Accountable for their actions >> and the Schedulers need to have someone monitoring their every move>> PM's should be able to oversee the schedulers descision making! If not a PM >> then NETJETS needs to Put a Manager in the Casino to help make Descisions when things get bad>> Ie.. Weather and Maintenance problems! Schedulers run pilots around like Dogs and screw customers over and Cost the company Millions! Its time for management to hold them "Accountable"!
They will do about anything to protect your job in any kind of enforcement action against a pilot by the Company! You will have them on your side and they will send the attorney's too! I don't have a warm fuzzy when it comes to this issue with the teamsters!
At ALPA >> I figured the Union dues would at least offset Attorney fees if I ever needed them!
As far as ALPA's success with the majors >> hmmm let me see >> A bunch of guys are furloughed and ALPA's hurting for revenue! Thats Success!
As far as being a Captain at a Regional >>> A few years back you could make it to the left seat in no time at many companies. Now obviously it will be a wait!
NETJETS could be a great place to work. I think we have a lot more issues other than money! The puzzle palace is way too inefficient! And we end up getting the run around on the road because of it! This ticks me off on a daily basis. The solution is staring Management folks right in the face but they for some reason will not fix it!
They need to make the Schedulers Accountable for their actions >> and the Schedulers need to have someone monitoring their every move>> PM's should be able to oversee the schedulers descision making! If not a PM >> then NETJETS needs to Put a Manager in the Casino to help make Descisions when things get bad>> Ie.. Weather and Maintenance problems! Schedulers run pilots around like Dogs and screw customers over and Cost the company Millions! Its time for management to hold them "Accountable"!
The fuggin' contract aint gonna get down any time soon no matter who is working it. ALPA is a freakin waste of space when it comes to the regionals or a fractional. ALPA does not beleive anyone other than a major should make that much money, ex. Comair. If ALPA truly believed they were worth it things would have been different.
Teamsters is just as bad. A bunch of truckers running around with their thumbs up their a$$es. They have done nothing for us and probably wont.
What we do have going for us is our MEC. It has taken an extraordinary lenght of time for these guys to figure out what they are doing but they have a clue now. The ultimate problem is still the company. They dont care about us or the contract and there is ZERO, 0, squad, NADA, nilch, nothing to motivate them or make them want to settle this thing.
The mediator is unable to come to CMH in January but he is willing to mediate provided we and the company come to him. Fair enough, right? Well do you honestly believe Santulli and his bunch of merry morons are going to travel TO a meeting. HELL NO.
We are basically screwed until this thing runs its course. The MEC knows what we want and time will tell whether we will get it or not.
Hopefully SWA, jB, Frontier and who ever else will take some of us to greener pastures. I thought I would be lifer when I got here. Flying brand new corporate jets across the world was what I always had dreamt of doing. This company can still be "The Place" to be but when. We all have a life to lead and waiting years and years for something that could or could not be great is a huge leap of faith.
Hey Southwest, "how u doin?'
Teamsters is just as bad. A bunch of truckers running around with their thumbs up their a$$es. They have done nothing for us and probably wont.
What we do have going for us is our MEC. It has taken an extraordinary lenght of time for these guys to figure out what they are doing but they have a clue now. The ultimate problem is still the company. They dont care about us or the contract and there is ZERO, 0, squad, NADA, nilch, nothing to motivate them or make them want to settle this thing.
The mediator is unable to come to CMH in January but he is willing to mediate provided we and the company come to him. Fair enough, right? Well do you honestly believe Santulli and his bunch of merry morons are going to travel TO a meeting. HELL NO.
We are basically screwed until this thing runs its course. The MEC knows what we want and time will tell whether we will get it or not.
Hopefully SWA, jB, Frontier and who ever else will take some of us to greener pastures. I thought I would be lifer when I got here. Flying brand new corporate jets across the world was what I always had dreamt of doing. This company can still be "The Place" to be but when. We all have a life to lead and waiting years and years for something that could or could not be great is a huge leap of faith.
Hey Southwest, "how u doin?'
well spoken lrjet55.
could not agree more. unfortunatley for me, at 51 years, ain't
many options or time.
I "fly the contract" period. I try to convience everyone that when
mediation dates are over in april its time to walk the walk.
Play time must end for everyone.
Love the job, love the company {if that makes any sense}, love the 7 as well, but in need of finality on the contract bs.
Belief the mec children have come a long way. Can't look back, but if we could?
still love flying, been a curse all my life
could not agree more. unfortunatley for me, at 51 years, ain't
many options or time.
I "fly the contract" period. I try to convience everyone that when
mediation dates are over in april its time to walk the walk.
Play time must end for everyone.
Love the job, love the company {if that makes any sense}, love the 7 as well, but in need of finality on the contract bs.
Belief the mec children have come a long way. Can't look back, but if we could?
still love flying, been a curse all my life
Gunfyter, Have you spoken to the MEC lately?
They are willing to give up a certain amount of retro for a larger base pay. Thats better than the alternative of more retro and less pay but still not what we deserve and have earned.
As for your war analogy, I think I would feel better if I thought I was helping the process along. I fly the contract but if I knew I was a part of some work action or something I was doing actually made a difference then this wait would be more tolerable. I kills me to picture RTS sitting in his PHAT PBI home whilst we barely scrape by during the holiday.
Sailorman,
I spoke with our MEC shortly before christmas and I was told that our mediator said there was no way negotiations would go until April. He said there simply wasn't enough information to be discussed. The MEC cautioned this was before both sides had presented their respective proposals. Since some negotiations were taking place during the holiday it will be most interesting to see what they have to say. I honestly pray there will be a positive announcement this week.
They are willing to give up a certain amount of retro for a larger base pay. Thats better than the alternative of more retro and less pay but still not what we deserve and have earned.
As for your war analogy, I think I would feel better if I thought I was helping the process along. I fly the contract but if I knew I was a part of some work action or something I was doing actually made a difference then this wait would be more tolerable. I kills me to picture RTS sitting in his PHAT PBI home whilst we barely scrape by during the holiday.
Sailorman,
I spoke with our MEC shortly before christmas and I was told that our mediator said there was no way negotiations would go until April. He said there simply wasn't enough information to be discussed. The MEC cautioned this was before both sides had presented their respective proposals. Since some negotiations were taking place during the holiday it will be most interesting to see what they have to say. I honestly pray there will be a positive announcement this week.
Sam Fisher
Well-known member
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- Oct 23, 2003
- Posts
- 217
Lrjet55 said:
This statement shows how truly ignorant you are as to the "in's and out's" of ALPA and the "regionals." Judging from your profile, you have zero experience with a "regional" airline or with ALPA. You must get all of your information from this message forum which is full of lies, mistruths, rhetoric, and falsities.
So I'll ask the question....what exactly is "ALPA?" What do those 4 letters mean to you? Some "Wizard of OZ" who controls everything from Washington DC? Do you understand how the bargaining process works?
Don't get me wrong, every labor union has its shortcomings, but I can't stand seeing my union take potshot and after potshot from people who are ignorant and naive to the real situation. I have been at ExpressJet for a while now and have seen the difference between the independant IACP and ALPA. We've been ALPA for 3 years almost and for the entire 18 months of this negotiating process that we are currently entrenched in and the resources, support, and results are outstanding.
There's a lot more I want to say but I fear that the facts might fall on deaf ears.
Sam
When it comes to Pay Issues ALPA only wants the United,Delta and USAIR guys to get Rich! When it comes to Pilot enforcement Issues >> ALPA helps any of their Pilots!
This is one area where the Teamsters must improve On! Period! This Good Old Boys System they have will not work for 1800 Pilots! Each and every one of the pilots deserves the same attention when it comes to this issue!
This is one area where the Teamsters must improve On! Period! This Good Old Boys System they have will not work for 1800 Pilots! Each and every one of the pilots deserves the same attention when it comes to this issue!
Sam Fisher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2003
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rajflyboy said:
Sorry Raj,
You are sorely misled and mistaken on this issue. Under your logic, then why would ALPA help 2 of those 3 negotiate concessionary contracts with the 3rd being in concessionary discussions as well?
Hate to break it to you....but you are flat out wrong. Have a look at the current Mesaba situation....the past Comair situation...the current ExpressJet situation. Quit buying into the rhetoric and the lies.
Happy New Year!
Sam
I don't have any issues with ALPA >> But they do favor the Major Airline guys over Everyone Else >> Of course now that A bunch of Major Airline Pilots are out of Work >> Sure >> ALPA is Helping the Regional Folks a lot more!
It All depends on your Local MEC as well! If you have an outstanding MEC >> ALPA or Any Other Union will be much more useful! At a Previous Job >>> Our MEC was very helpful in getting preferential Interviews set up after the Furloughs! I have to admit I was impressed by that! ALPA and the MEC really helped us folks in need!
In Our business Unions are needed to enforce work rules and also to Keep the Flying Public Safe! If you run into a medical problem or an enforcement issue >> its nice to have their help too!
It All depends on your Local MEC as well! If you have an outstanding MEC >> ALPA or Any Other Union will be much more useful! At a Previous Job >>> Our MEC was very helpful in getting preferential Interviews set up after the Furloughs! I have to admit I was impressed by that! ALPA and the MEC really helped us folks in need!
In Our business Unions are needed to enforce work rules and also to Keep the Flying Public Safe! If you run into a medical problem or an enforcement issue >> its nice to have their help too!
Sam Fisher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2003
- Posts
- 217
It has a lot to do with your MEC and a Lot to do with the restructuring of ALPA's financials!
Its common Sense >> Business 101 >> They lost so much money from all the furloughs >> now they have to pay closer attention to the lower salary Regional Pilots to ensure that ALPA gets the union Dues to stay in Business >> They now realize that Regional Jets are the wave of the Future!
ALPA will get union Dues from Regional guys for years to come >> They need to take care of you Folks!
Its common Sense >> Business 101 >> They lost so much money from all the furloughs >> now they have to pay closer attention to the lower salary Regional Pilots to ensure that ALPA gets the union Dues to stay in Business >> They now realize that Regional Jets are the wave of the Future!
ALPA will get union Dues from Regional guys for years to come >> They need to take care of you Folks!
Sam Fisher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2003
- Posts
- 217
rajflyboy said:
ExpressJet has had the Director of Representation for ALPA as their professional negotiator/attorney for the past 3 years, since before 9/11 and the furloughs. He is the #1 attorney at ALPA and a "regional" has him full time. Not bad in my opinion. Are you sure ALPA still doesn't care about the small jet carriers?
Again, your arguments, while you seem to mean well, lack any sort of logical thought nor do they make sense to me.
Sam
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