Airline Pilots, Wht is your job worth????

[The_Russian]

My apologies I didnt see that.

My advise. Don't settle for this BS. If you get in to an airline, stand for your rights and what you deserve.

 

[Immelman]

This is a good thread. I am not a pro pilot and, despite having the dream, made the decision not to pursue it as a career about 5 yrs ago. It is nice, yet disheartening, sitting on the other side and seeing/hearing what pilots at 121 carriers are going through just so Joe Schmoe can fly across the country for $100 and not pay a dime more because of fuel costs.

My father was an organizer. Back in the 40s... shipping, docks, transport, industry, etc. He was an organizer not because of the desire to get fat but because labor would routinely get reamed - unsafe working conditions, lack of time off, difficulty in getting a pay check a person earned. Back then, though, the unions had balls to get their say. It didn't come via pickets lockouts or hand-waving.. it came from blood in many cases.

Now I am not advocating anything bad, immoral, or illegal, but realize that if you have people standing in line to pay for the right seat, and you want to make a serious organization effort... it would have to be a strong picket line to have any chance. That's all I'll say.

 

[Kream926]

ive known of most of the flight school BS and all the other sh*t...
im still here and i will be when i reach mins and i will keep flyin till someone gives me a job, then after that i will still keep flying till im a capatin on a 1900 . and then after that i will keep flying till they move me up to a CRJ or ERJ, and then i will keep flying till im a captain on a crj or erj. and then after that i will keep flying, and then i will keep flying, and more flying untill i get my shot in a 73 or E170, or even teaching back in a 172. even a 150................................................................... i love flying and i cant see myself not doing it......if all they will pay me is 17K a year that i will give up some luxuries amd go live in my van....or with my parents...whatever it takes

 

[Kream926]

im re considering takin that reasturant managment offer now

34K + bonuses

 

[Kream926]

Ok, this has to be flame bait. If not, you ARE a COMPANY man. Every airline management drools over your type. Willing to accept shiit pay, and a shiit life style....just so you can fly.

good, thanx at least i will like my sh*t job

 

[The_Russian]

Well if the Russian flies for the comapny I think he does(GIA). He wont have any chance there, because the people in the boat with him don't have a back bone to stand with. Being that they all paid their way, how are they supposed to have any leadership? Do they pick their leader by who has the best credit rating? or have been "Paying" their dues the longest there?

Sounds like some hate to me! Don't like GIA? Don't like that we are a training airline and we only hire our own? Sorry, but thats the way we do things.

Personally I think you have misconstrued to context of the conversation so you can take a personal stab at me. The truth is that with all of the mid-life crisis airline pilots and kids that are WILLING to take these wages are doing just the same.

Nobody at GIA "pays their way". You get a job because of recommendations, training records, and flying skill. You have a twisted misconception that GIA is PFT or PFJ and it is not. You don't even know what our building looks like.

Our pilots had the balls to stand up to SCAB COOPER and form a union. They fought for almost a year with managment to get wages almost double than we were getting. Our QOL and pay is better than any other 1900 operator. WE are raising the bar and we will continue to do so. I hope for a good new contract this year.

Stand corrected please.

 

[jumppilot]

who your workin for........is it really that bad

Wow...

 

[Goose Egg]

What's worse is there are people like "Goose Egg" that admit that they will step in and fly my job if I don't want to take a pay cut. That makes me sick. Truly Sad.

It was a joke, dude. I have no interest in your job; it definitely sucks. But you've got to understand that there are plenty of people out there for which $80K at a major is just fine.

-Goose

 

[PolarTwins55]

Hockey doesn't have people willing to PAY $23,000 to play the game. Russian talks of pilot who are willing to walk out on their job, but he forgets that we have people low enough that are willing to PAY to sit in the right seat so they can build time to make it to the regionals.

So why should they pay pilots anything when we have people who are willing to pay for a job?

actually, it does. Junior C and B can cost in excess of $20000. Was looking into a Junior C team in the SOUTH and it was $11000 just for a spot on the team.

Sorry, I know that is worthless to the topic, but I actually know what I'm talking about, for once.

 

[Green Banana]

It was a joke, dude. I have no interest in your job; it definitely sucks. But you've got to understand that there are plenty of people out there for which $80K at a major is just fine.

-Goose

If it was a joke, sorry, it is hard to get that when you are reading this stuff with no vocal inflection. But I can Guarantee that there is not ONE pilot actually at the Majors that says he will do it for 80K. I would expect to hear that from someone who aspires to be at a major, but once you are there it is a different story.

 

[Jmajoris]

Negative attitude

this topic isnt very reassuring....im already 67K deep in training bout to go on my cfi ride............what should i do

Stop coming here. In case you have not figured it out yet, most of these folks just love to complain. Somethings always wrong, woe is me, pft, yada, yada, yada, crybabies. If they spent as much time working as they are complaining maybe they'd have a better outlook on life....

Be proud that you're a pilot. Turn off the PC and go fly.

 

[RJET]

KAF,

I remember when I was your age, I used to ask the same questions, I was as optimistics as you and thought to myself that things cannot be that bad. The first year, you are all smile because you are happy that you have made it. Once in a while, you will fly with grumpy old guys that b**ch and cry about how the company treats them wrong. Then little by little after a couple of months, scheduling had done a couple numbers on me, and no one to back you up, the CP, not the company, the UNION well you grievance, but you still worked during those days you had planned to be with family, friends, or girlfriend, and on top of this you are making low 30's after a few years. One day you are going to want pay a mortgage instead rent, have a nice car instead of a bike, have kids, pay the 67K debt, etc. Follow your dreams, just know what you are getting yourself into. If I was starting this career, I would most likely go into a different industry.

Jmaroris, I used to think pilots complained a lot until I got here.
We have to protect this industry and how low are we willing to go.

 

[A Squared]

The Russian,

Fascinating that you're such a harda$$, "demand what we're worth" kinda girl. Fascinating indeed for a Gulfstream First Officer. Yeah, I know from your previous posts that you think Gulfstream"s FO "program" isn't PFT, ot PFJ or whatever. I'm not even going to try to penetrate your veil of denial and delusion, so spare me your absurd rationalizations. Whatever you chose to call it, (and you can call it anything your little heart desidres) paying a company almost $30,000 for a "Job" is just sleazy and disgusting. A big part of the reason we're in this situation is because of operators like Gulfstream and the types who write them checks for the privilege of occupying a seat in htier airplanes. When you're tallking about acepting less (and we are, that's the original topic of this thread) it doesn't get any worse than the "employee" paying money to the company instead ofh te other way around. Yes I know, Gulfstream "pay" the rightseaters $8 per hour. Right, that means in the end you've only paid $27,285, instead of $29,285.

Please, Gulfstream is the bottom of the barrel, so don't come charging onto the thread, acting like you're standing up for what's right. You have already been tested and you've failed that test.

 

[Goose Egg]

But I can Guarantee that there is not ONE pilot actually at the Majors that says he will do it for 80K.

Yeah, except for the furloughed ones.

Seriously though, I see what you were saying, and I definitely wouldn't stand for making $80K if I was a senior captain at a major flying heavy equipment and long hauls.

But I've got to tell you (maybe all the complaining is finally getting to me) that I really don't have much interest in the airline gig anymore. You guys come on here and constantly harp about how much it sucks, and I'm starting to believe you. But that's ok. I'll figure something else out.

However, I've also got to say that I've seen another attitude here on the website as well as my place of work that concerns me to say the least; If you aren't always pissed about something, then you are a "kool-aid drinker" or a "company man." In other words, if you are not disgruntled, then you are some sort of company shill. And I simply refuse to accept that mindset. Just because I like my job and am satisfied with my pay level does not mean that I'm not showing "solidarity."

-Goose

 

[ADF_Fixed]

For what is worth

Would you folk(s) like to try on some different shoe. I meant the other side of life. How about state minimum wages. hihihih, C'mom get real. hope this doesn't offended anyone. hihihihi $50k-$100k. Wanna get rich fast, how about start up a company, sit behind a desk and dream about the next landing.. huh hit home yet.
better appreciate folks. cuz you never know it could be like Eastern. remember

 

[Ty Webb]

Oh, I like this one better. After 6 legs of shooting approaches down to mins in snow or rain. Scheduling calls and says " You and your crew will repo/ferry that plane to XXX and DH back"

You say " why us? are we the most junior crew out there?"

Crew sched : "You were assigned the trip, now call the CP for arguing with me"

You gotta be kidding me. People really put up with this where you work? I wouldn;t put up with that crap for two seconds.

A Squared- very well put. I couldn't have said it better myself, though lord knows, I've tried . . . . and tried!

 

[hawg2hawk]

If you make your living flying and you hate your job, it sucks to be you and you should have left some options open in school.

 

[Whirlwind]

this topic isnt very reassuring....im already 67K deep in training bout to go on my cfi ride............what should i do

Not to jump into the middle of this, but if this is the first research you've done on a job that you've invested $67K into, then you've done this to yourself.

Yes, the pay is terrible, yes the working conditions can be terrible. The airlines are nothing special anymore if you're just starting out.

Getting paid less than $30K per year for the first 3 to 4 years of being an airline pilot, while working 6 days a week, holidays, etc. just isn't worth it IMHO.

 

[Caveman]

"But I can Guarantee that there is not ONE pilot actually at the Majors that says he will do it for 80K."

Wrong. I invite you to check out the major payscales at airlinepay.com. ALL of the majors have pay that is below $80K. FO's at USAir only get $85 and they've been there at least 16 years! Starting pay at UPS is $27. You don't break $80 at AWA until your 5th year. At AirTran and JB you don't break $80 until you upgrade. AT UAL, DAL an AA you don't make $80K until 3rd year pay. These are the majors and legacy carriers. Evergreen, Polar, Kalitta, and Southern all have pay rates for 747 Captains below $100 bucks an hour. I'm not talking about freak 1st year 747 Capt either. These are pay scales for 3, 4, 5 and even 6th year 747 Capt.

Let me guess, you've never worked in another career besides aviation, right? $80K annually is a pretty darn good wage. Don't think so? Bail out of aviation and try and do something else to make $80K. It can be done but you are gonna work your a$$ off to get it. There are exceptions I'm sure, but most folks making that kind of money are putting in 60+ hour work weeks. The majority of newly minted attorneys aren't making anything near $80K unless they live in NY or SFO. Try $35K for a rookie member of the bar and their student loans aren't any less than yours.

I'm all for improvement, but don't delude yourself into thinking we are special and 'deserve' more than we get. We are paid what we negotiate and what the market will bear. If you can get more out of your company, then good for you but I think your expectations are unrealistic in the current market.

 

[Swede]

All the ranting aside, here's what it boils down to...

Those of us who've done the "Majors" for any length of time KNOW what it can be like, just how dam good it can be. Full months in 12 days due to efficient scheduling. Profit sharing. Entire months with the same CP/cabin crew, you'd get to know people and have a bit of fun. Mutual respect between labor groups. Adequately manned bid-status pools. Upgrades measured in years, not decades. Passenegers nicely dressed instead of fat hairy old dudes in muscle shirts and flip-flops. Crew meals so we aren't faint from low blood sugar. I could go on and on.

Above all, a salary commensurate with your seat.

Now, we can't even take a whizz without a congressional act. Cabin crews change every leg. They'd probably change them DURING the leg if the laws of physics permitted it. Everyone exhausted ALL the time from bad scheduling. Salaries plummeting; furloughs, acquisitions, the death of carriers. And no end in sight.

Is it any wonder pilots are PO'ed?