Airline Pilots, is this scenario possible?

[Ultraman]

Since I am not all that familiar with the airlines, is this scenario possible?

A guy is hired by American Airlines in 1993 and eventually makes captain on the MD-88. He then goes to 777 school but never gets on the line because 9/11 happens and he is furloughed for a year. He is then recalled and is now, at age 40, a 777 international captain.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Ultraman

 

[Pickle]

I doubt it. First of all, AA does not have MD-88s, just 82s or 83s or 80s or something in the low eighties.

Second, didn't AA have people on furlough in '93, and they were not called back until '95 or '96??

Third, even if someone WAS hired by AA in '93, they would not have had the seniority to hold captain on ANYTHING by a date prior to 9/11,

Fouth, again assuming they WERE in fact hired by AA in '93, they would have had 8 years of seniority by the time 9/11 rolled around, and I don't think that any people that far up the list with AA have been furloughed.

Of course, I have no clue about anything.

 

[RUhiring?]

No way......

First of all, I don't think any AA captains were furloughed after 9/11 (ex-TWA not included).

Secondly, no one could go from furloughed to 777 Captain in three years.

 

[mannyaplus11]

All the above are absolutely correct.

A person upgrading but, because of events, will be subsequently downgraded, not furloughed. He could, in fact, be downgraded to First Officer.

I was furloughed three years ago... and counting.

 

[ozpilot]

Not likely since pilots are furloughed from the bottom of the seniority list - so its the recently hired First Officers that are the first to go. Similarily when they are recalled they once again join the bottom of the list.

Its interesting that while a furlough reduces the total pilot cost to the airline, it actually increseases the average cost - since its the lowest paid pilots that get furloughed.

In your example, for the 777 captain to be furloughed, all pilots junior to him would have to be furloughed. Way before that happened, the 777 captain would have to suffer numerious downgrades, so that by the time he is furloughed - he would be a junior First Officer on the most junior aircraft. When he is recalled he again starts out as a junior First Officer on the most junior aircraft.

 

[justApilot]

hey oz.......uh.......that's my avatar

 

[ozpilot]

hey oz.......uh.......that's my avatar

I don't recall where I found it - if its yours - its great - consider it changed

 

[rumpletumbler]

Whats an airline pilot?

 

[mattpilot]

Whats an airline pilot?

You know... the ones known as "real" pilots.

 

[typhoonpilot]

Secondly, no one could go from furloughed to 777 Captain in three years.

That is not entirely true. I think what you meant to say is that no one could go from furloughed to 777 Captain at the same airline in three years.

P.S. Nice Avatar


TP

 

[T-Gates]

That is not entirely true. I think what you meant to say is that no one could go from furloughed to 777 Captain at the same airline in three years.

P.S. Nice Avatar


TP

How long did it take you at Emirates anyway? 2?

 

[bigr]

I have a friend thats been with AA since '88. He is a first officer on the 777 for about 4 years. when he first became a first officer on the 777 he told me that the only ones holding a captain seat were in their late 50s. but thats when the bird was just coming on line.

 

[Thedude]

I know a guy thata was hired at AA dutinr the early 80's in the backseat of the 727. He was furloghed a couple of years later and I think it was 7 years till he was recalled. And he was recalled as a 727 Capt. Yes, it can happen but I don't think a guy would jump all the way to the most senior a/c as the 777.

 

[typhoonpilot]

How long did it take you at Emirates anyway? 2?

One year, but it was kind of a special case. There were about 20 guys in my category that got accelerated upgrades based on previous experience. For most people it has traditionally been 3 years. It will stay that way on the 777 for the next year or two, but anyone hired now will see something closer to 7 years.

I know a guy thata was hired at AA dutinr the early 80's in the backseat of the 727. He was furloghed a couple of years later and I think it was 7 years till he was recalled. And he was recalled as a 727 Capt.

Here is another statement that is going to need some explaining. American Airlines started hiring in 1984. When they started they started in a big way through 1984 and 1985. They did not furlough until 1993. So it makes in quite implausible that a guy would have been furloughed for 7 years in the 1980s. Perhaps he was hired in the late 70s or maybe early 80s and was furloughed as either a result of the economic downtourn in the late 70s, or the PATCO strike. Perhaps he bypassed recall in 1984 and took a leave of absence, but there is no way he would have been furloughed past 1984. It is possible, but not probable, that he could have held Captain on the 727 if he delayed recall long enough.


Typhoonpilot

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Since I am not all that familiar with the airlines, is this scenario possible?

No it's not. I'm an AA guy.

Sounds like an American Eagle pilot or a insecure AA guy trying to get into the pants of some girl. You didn't hear this from a sister who is hot looking and rich by chance ?

Here is the summary:

Out of 40 something B777's at AA there are only about 20 total original "B-Scale" guys hired around 1983 flying Captain on it, and all are bottom reserve at JFK or MIA. These are the "golden boys" at AA, all hired early in the first wave of pilots and all could have made CA in less than 6 years.

Nobody made Captain at AA if they were hired in 1993. The most junior guy that made it had around a late 1991 date of hire and that was on the FK100.

After this month, bottom Captain at AA will be around 14.5 years of seniority, and that's sitting on reserve at LGA on the MD-80. With a large number of guys in this range, AA has one of the worst career progressions for quality of life and earnings in the industry outside of U and the former TWA. If anyone knows other companies where 15 years still puts you in the right seat, please post them. I guess there around, but I haven't heard of too many.

Hope this helps

 

[atrdriver]

Not likely since pilots are furloughed from the bottom of the seniority list -

Except at US Air with that new LOA.

 

[Ultraman]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

C-150ETOPS, it's not my sister, but my niece.

I actually met the guy yesterday at a family Christmas gathering. I quizzed him as much as I could about the airlines and the 777 and he answered all the questions reasonably well, but I couldn't get his timeline to make sense.

He showed up at the party wearing his uniform, hat, trenchcoat and four stripes to boot! He said he was just returning from Tokyo.

I looked him up on the Landings database and he has a Commercial certificate with instructor's rating.

Oh well!
Ultraman

 

[Oakum_Boy]

This sounds really scary. Call the FBI or something.

 

[wrxpilot]

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert here, but I personally know an AA captain (a close family member that is also my CFI) that was hired in '82 or '83. He was on the 777 before 911, then onto something else after the furloughs, then back on, then recently forced to flying something else (hint, it's made in France). So how could this guy with much less seniority be a 777 capt?

 

[belchfire]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

C-150ETOPS, it's not my sister, but my niece.

I actually met the guy yesterday at a family Christmas gathering. I quizzed him as much as I could about the airlines and the 777 and he answered all the questions reasonably well, but I couldn't get his timeline to make sense.

He showed up at the party wearing his uniform, hat, trenchcoat and four stripes to boot! He said he was just returning from Tokyo.

I looked him up on the Landings database and he has a Commercial certificate with instructor's rating.

Oh well!
Ultraman

Oh...well, I know that this guy isfull
of sheeite for sure. If he was a real
airline Captian he would have shown
up with the stripes, tie and ID hastily torn
off, a drink in one hand and lipstick on
his (unbuttoned) collar!

What a looser!

 

[minitour]

Oh...well, I know that this guy isfull
of sheeite for sure. If he was a real
airline Captian he would have shown
up with the stripes, tie and ID hastily torn
off, a drink in one hand and lipstick on
his (unbuttoned) collar!

What a looser!

...and told us all about the DC3 that guided him in, right?

sounds like the guy is full of bologna too...

-mini

PS
Ever notice how fun that Oscar Mayer song is? "cuz oscar mayer has a way with b-o-l-o-g-n-a!"

 

[beernuts]

If anyone knows other companies where 15 years still puts you in the right seat, please post them. I guess there around, but I haven't heard of too many.

Doesn't that put you on the street a US Air now? Or did I hear wrong that they are back as far as 1987?

 

[Kingairrick]

One major oversight. You can't be a Capt. in turbojet equipment without an ATP. If he has commercial pilot. He's full of it.

 

[JB74]

Busted!!!

Also check the FAA's database on him, he should have some type ratings which would back up his claim.

 

[Weasil]

That is correct beernuts. 15 years puts you on the street at Airways.

If anyone knows other companies where 15 years still puts you in the right seat, please post them. I guess there around, but I haven't heard of too many.

Doesn't that put you on the street a US Air now? Or did I hear wrong that they are back as far as 1987?

 

[Ultraman]

I checked the FAA registry and he has no, nada, zilch, type ratings.

Sounds like he's trying to pull the "Catch Me If You Can" scheme.

Ultraman

 

[C601]

Ask him is it Terminal 2 or 3 ( its really 1 lol ) that AA use in Toyko, that should get him. As there is no T3, and T2 is used by Japan airlines, swiss, or China eastern airlines etc.... or ask him what the name of the airport he flies into... its Tokyo Narita International Airport

 

[C-150ETOPS]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

C-150ETOPS, it's not my sister, but my niece.

I actually met the guy yesterday at a family Christmas gathering. I quizzed him as much as I could about the airlines and the 777 and he answered all the questions reasonably well, but I couldn't get his timeline to make sense.

He showed up at the party wearing his uniform, hat, trenchcoat and four stripes to boot! He said he was just returning from Tokyo.

I looked him up on the Landings database and he has a Commercial certificate with instructor's rating.

Oh well!
Ultraman

I checked every arrival from Narita Tokyo since Thursday. Every Captain had a seniority in the low triple digits, +30 years or so. The highest seniority FO's were a couple of guys on the west coast. Even they were hired before 1990. Aint no 1993 guy anywhere.

"whole milk" was right. All AA international FO's have to be type rated and ATP rated and also must hold a FAA Class I physicals so you got him there. Additionally, all AA FO's are prohibited from wearing the Captains stripes and hats as FO's even if they had been Captains before the cutbacks. (That's my case, but ok by me. I couldn't take someone calling me Captain after getting knocked back )

1983 seniority: around 20 junior 777 CA's
1990 " " most junior 777 FO

Watch your checkbook and keep a eye on your niece. Email me a last name and first initial and I'll give you a YES/NO on his status. If "NO", call the TSA.
Personally, even as an AA pilot, impersonating one is weird for anyone with any knowledge of current events. With our "industry lowering" compensation standards, the costume shop must have been out of the Michael Jackson and Pee Wee Hermann costumes and only had the AA Captian uniform left.

Good luck

 

[Swede]

I'll reinfoce the fact that this guy's story is total B.S. For NATIVE AA'ers, staying at AA, the juniormost guy to ever make captain before the displacements and general slowdown was a 1991 hire. Flat-out impossible for a 1993 hire to have upgraded at AA to Capt. Sounds like a poser, possibly dangerous.

Ask for his seniority number or employee number. With that we can instantly expose him If you see an ID, his EN will be there.

 

[Ultraman]

C-150ETOPS,

Check your personal messages.

Thanks,

Ultraman