Air Wisconsin pilots win!!

[Black Hawk]

AWAC was either pretty lucky or the management team was incredibly brilliant to have survived the UAL situation and find a place for their 70 jets so quickly. I hope you get what's due from management but they also did a good job of keeping AWAC afloat in a situation that could have easily put everyone out on the street. Black Hawk (AWAC short timer)

 

[hoover]

I just wonder about the future. When the USAir contract expires, or if they declare bankruptcy again, will AWAC find itself back in the same position it started in (i.e no flying contract and costs way above their competitors)?

 

[Black Hawk]

I just wonder about the future. When the USAir contract expires, or if they declare bankruptcy again, will AWAC find itself back in the same position it started in (i.e no flying contract and costs way above their competitors)?

Maybe. There isn't really a high level of security available in the airline business these days. AWAC certainly needs to diversify.

 

[HAirQ4]

Congrats all you Whiskeys! Gives us at Qx some more power for the ongoing talks.

 

[J32driver]

I think that they thought that they had a deal with United, affirmed or otherwise. I've met the 3 amigos. I saw one or the other one almost every day. I just don't think they were lying.

They intentionally deceived the pilot group.

The money from the pilot's concessions was supposed to be passed on to UAL. It wasn't, and the Amigos hid that fact from the pilot group for almost 1 year. The only reason we found out about it is because UAL ultimately rejected the contract. When UAL rejected the contract, the Amigos got caught redhanded holding a big fat bag of cash that was supposed to belong to the pilots. And they said, if you want it back, sue us!

Make no mistake about it. If UAL and AWAC would have come to an agreement at that 1 year point instead of splitting, the Amigos would have handed that big bag of cash over to UAL and pocketed the interest for themselves. The pilots would have never found out that the Amigos made money off of the concessions before that money was passed on to UAL.

I don't believe the Amigos set out to defraud the pilot group. I think they got burned by UAL at the outset and then tried to sweep it under the rug never for an instant thinking they would lose the UAL flying. When the did lose the flying, everything came tumbling out into the open for the world to see.

 

[rightrudder]

When I first found out that we didn't get the UAL deal, I did wonder how that they missed that little loophole in bankruptcy laws. But I just don't believe that they lied to us. I think that they thought that they had a deal with United, affirmed or otherwise. I've met the 3 amigos. I saw one or the other one almost every day. I just don't think they were lying. I could be wrong, but I think they were lied to by UAL.

If you saw one of the 3 amigos almost everyday, you must be in management. Your previous posts now make sense.

 

[rightrudder]

As a former AWACer, I can't let this one stand. No one "screwed" you. You and your fellow pilots AGREED to the concessions to help keep the company going. While the concessions didn't go for the stated purpose, it can't be denied that they were instrumental in getting a flying contract with USAir. If not for that, you'd have been on the street a year ago. Or more likely, you never would have been hired in the first place, judging by your screen name.

The thing that gets me is you probably weren't even around for the concessions. You were flying for ACA/Indy Air when all this began. So where do you come off complaining about it?

This is a good example of a post by someone who is not a line pilot.

 

[Rottweiller]

They intentionally deceived the pilot group.

The money from the pilot's concessions was supposed to be passed on to UAL. It wasn't, and the Amigos hid that fact from the pilot group for almost 1 year. The only reason we found out about it is because UAL ultimately rejected the contract. When UAL rejected the contract, the Amigos got caught redhanded holding a big fat bag of cash that was supposed to belong to the pilots. And they said, if you want it back, sue us!

Make no mistake about it. If UAL and AWAC would have come to an agreement at that 1 year point instead of splitting, the Amigos would have handed that big bag of cash over to UAL and pocketed the interest for themselves. The pilots would have never found out that the Amigos made money off of the concessions before that money was passed on to UAL.

I don't believe the Amigos set out to defraud the pilot group. I think they got burned by UAL at the outset and then tried to sweep it under the rug never for an instant thinking they would lose the UAL flying. When the did lose the flying, everything came tumbling out into the open for the world to see.

EXACTLY!! They thought they could try and shaw up the UAL deal behind closed doors however UAL wouldn't play and they got exposed through UAL's own court papers.

Now management (owners) have to pay the penalty and that penalty includes 3+ years of interest on the money they basiaclly stole from pilots, FA's, mechs etc for that matter, and I hope they all follow suit now there is a
precedence been set.

I have no sympathy for ATW, they have been exposed for what they truely are THIEVES!!

 

[TCBKING]

If you saw one of the 3 amigos almost everyday, you must be in management. Your previous posts now make sense.

Sounds to me like he is a dispatcher. I doubt he is in management. Just trying to make himself look like a big shot, Hob Knobbing with the owners. It would also make sense with his comments.

 

[Crossky]

As a former AWACer, I can't let this one stand. No one "screwed" you. You and your fellow pilots AGREED to the concessions to help keep the company going. While the concessions didn't go for the stated purpose, it can't be denied that they were instrumental in getting a flying contract with USAir. If not for that, you'd have been on the street a year ago.

As a current AWAC'er, I can't let your post stand. You yourself write that 'While the concessions didn't go for the stated purpose, . . .' ; what do you call that besides getting screwed? Fondled?

Our pilots responded quickly (and foolhartedly) to United's demands for a concession. Within a month after MEC negotiations started, we voted YES and had the votes counted. We could have done the same thing for US Airways, why couldn't we have? Even if we had voted NO the first time (always a good decision especially when you're being rushed in negotiations) the pilots would've likely voted yes for concessions later down the road.

 

[crashpad]

Our pilots responded quickly (and foolhartedly) to United's demands for a concession. Within a month after MEC negotiations started, we voted YES and had the votes counted. We could have done the same thing for US Airways, why couldn't we have? Even if we had voted NO the first time (always a good decision especially when you're being rushed in negotiations) the pilots would've likely voted yes for concessions later down the road.

Loooking back....Do you feel your MEC was being straight with the pilot group, or were they in the pockets of the Tres Cojones?

 

[masedogg19]

You were there weren't you?.....What do you think?

 

[DiverDriver]

AWAC was either pretty lucky or the management team was incredibly brilliant to have survived the UAL situation and find a place for their 70 jets so quickly. I hope you get what's due from management but they also did a good job of keeping AWAC afloat in a situation that could have easily put everyone out on the street. Black Hawk (AWAC short timer)

I can see why you and others would think along those lines. But here's a counter arguement. Had AWAC just gone and done a deal for CRJ-700s like UAL wanted (and awarded like candy) then they wouldn't have had to find a new home for their 70 CRJs! The 3 Amigos could have done a deal but they wanted their margin. Fine. But they didn't have a new deal with UAL like they told us they did. Then UAL says that AWAC had been paid the same all along and they were tired of it and put our flying up for bid. So, I see it a bit different. Yes, brilliant move and they made a sh!t load of $$ off the stock. But it wouldn't have been necessary had they just done what UAL wanted and gotten the 700s. Then again. Maybe this is exactly what they wanted to do. Have an opportunity to shake out the top seniority and lower their operating costs by lowering average seniority.

Just a thought.

 

[Crossky]

Loooking back....Do you feel your MEC was being straight with the pilot group, or were they in the pockets of the Tres Cojones?

I don't know, I was a pretty new 9 month probie. That's a pretty tall conspiracy order to swallow. I think they believed that Big blue was able and willing to farm out flying to lower cost bidders, and that has proven true.

I'm surprised you haven't wacked the other crashpad, goes by the name 'Crash Pad'. Can't have that now.

 

[lifeguard]

Can someone please give me the dates again of when the new {concessionary}contract was voted on and the date it went into effect? Will the pilots who worked there at the time the concessionary contract went into effect but no longer work there now get back pay?

 

[DirkkDiggler]

Was voted on mid April 2003. Went into effect Oct. 1, 2003.

 

[DiverDriver]

We don't know what the "remedy" will be yet. They have 14 days from last Friday the 9th to talk about a remedy. I doubt very much something will be reached and it will go back to the arbitrator for a final resolution.

 

[b19]

Good Job. You help to set the standard for the rest of the industry at the regional level, hell all of us could learn from your pilot group about having the courage to stand for your own personal self worth and staying united. Congrats and I hope we all follow your lead.

 

[masedogg19]

nevermind

 

[CAPT. NEW YORK]

Justanumba...love the avatar!!! That is a great movie, one of my favorites!

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

Now I hope the rest of the industry grows balls and stands up to mgt like we are doing. Someone needs to stop th race to the bottom.

 

[hoover]

This is a good example of a post by someone who is not a line pilot.

I was neither in management nor a line pilot. I worked in Dispatch, a UNION group.

 

[ballsdeep123]

I was neither in management nor a line pilot. I worked in Dispatch, a UNION group.

Oh so then you have no idea what it's like to be away from home for 15-18 days a month living in hotel rooms? Sometimes for two weeks at a time because your company decided to make both ends of your trip uncommutable and set your schedule up so that you have a three day backed up by a two day with only one day off in between before the next set of five days in a row starts. Yeah, now I know what you're going to say, "well you knew what you were getting yourself into when you took the job." Well you might be onto something there, but maybe that's why pilots used to get compensated the way they did and would get a fair amount of days off. Because they miss every holiday, birthday, anniversary, baseball game, and work every weekend, which is when normal people go out and socialize. Why do you think most pilots have been divorced, most of them twice?

 

[HelloNewman]

Oh so then you have no idea what it's like to be away from home for 15-18 days a month living in hotel rooms? Sometimes for two weeks at a time because your company decided to make both ends of your trip uncommutable and set your schedule up so that you have a three day backed up by a two day with only one day off in between before the next set of five days in a row starts. Yeah, now I know what you're going to say, "well you knew what you were getting yourself into when you took the job." Well you might be onto something there, but maybe that's why pilots used to get compensated the way they did and would get a fair amount of days off. Because they miss every holiday, birthday, anniversary, baseball game, and work every weekend, which is when normal people go out and socialize. Why do you think most pilots have been divorced, most of them twice?

Move to your domicile, try to get the day trips/ 2day trips and start rebuilding your life. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Stop torturing yourself in hotel rooms and by commuting. Take the move expenses, move, and begin to live a normal life again. Commuting must end to return to some sense of normal life. A campaign should be started for management to make nothing but day trips or two days trips/ Standups. Save money on hotels. End 4 day trips now! Use the money saved on hotels to pay us more. In fact airline schedules should be nothing but locals. Also throw in some two day trips and Standups to cover the RONs. By doing locals and two day trips you won't miss nearly as many milestones in your life. The airline lifestyle of living in a hotel must end!!

 

[IdRtherBsailing]

Oh so then you have no idea what it's like to be away from home for 15-18 days a month living in hotel rooms? Sometimes for two weeks at a time because your company decided to make both ends of your trip uncommutable and set your schedule up so that you have a three day backed up by a two day with only one day off in between before the next set of five days in a row starts. Yeah, now I know what you're going to say, "well you knew what you were getting yourself into when you took the job." Well you might be onto something there, but maybe that's why pilots used to get compensated the way they did and would get a fair amount of days off. Because they miss every holiday, birthday, anniversary, baseball game, and work every weekend, which is when normal people go out and socialize. Why do you think most pilots have been divorced, most of them twice?

Great post

Don't forget possible criminal charges if you land a plane too hard. Honestly though, if I hear one more Dispatcher, Scheduler, Mechanic, or anyone else for that matter say "why don't you just move?" I am going to lose it. First of all I have seen better housing in Baghdad than Philly. Second, I chose this, I'll deal with it. I am not going to put my family through my hell. If I moved near domicile it would be an easier drive to work but I will still be gone 4 days at a crack. Only now my wife and child will have no support from family or friends. My wife would have to quit her job, move from her family and friends, have my daughter grow up not knowing her Nanna and Grandpa just so I can get home six hours earlier. That is not worth it. If I have to commute to Poopadelphia for the remainder of my AWAC career so be it. If they say that giving us backpay and our old contract back will put them under I say sucks for them. That will not happen because not only are they profitable now but they made a killing on the Airways investment. All that will happen is it will cut into the profits of our owners. They have proven even under a concessionary contract they can't secure more flying. All the RFP's are out and gone and we got Nadda. It was just business when they took our money, and it will be just business taking it back.

The way managment is and has been acting is a discrace to this once great airline. We prided ourselves on having a great pilot/managment relationship. 9 times out of 10 there was no need to grieve anything. It was always resolved. I am sure that if guys that retired were to see how it is here now, they would not believe it.

 

[BoilerUP]

Move to your domicile, try to get the day trips/ 2day trips and start rebuilding your life. You are either part of the problem or part of the solution. Stop torturing yourself in hotel rooms and by commuting. Take the move expenses, move, and begin to live a normal life again. Commuting must end to return to some sense of normal life. A campaign should be started for management to make nothing but day trips or two days trips/ Standups. Save money on hotels. End 4 day trips now! Use the money saved on hotels to pay us more. In fact airline schedules should be nothing but locals. Also throw in some two day trips and Standups to cover the RONs. By doing locals and two day trips you won't miss nearly as many milestones in your life. The airline lifestyle of living in a hotel must end!!

I'm beginning to think you really are as stupid as you seem. Otherwise, you'd realize the whole point for RONs is flying an early morning originator to the hub.


Yeah, people who were told "we're NEVER leaving Denver" should root up their teenage children, sell their homes, and move out to the croweded, expensive, sh!thole east coast simply so management can save some bucks.

 

[lifeguard]

Hey you guys you are taking the fun out of this thread..it started out positive. Go start a different, bitter thread.

 

[masedogg19]

I'm beginning to think you really are as stupid as you seem. Otherwise, you'd realize the whole point for RONs is flying an early morning originator to the hub.


Yeah, people who were told "we're NEVER leaving Denver" should root up their teenage children, sell their homes, and move out to the croweded, expensive, sh!thole east coast simply so management can save some bucks.

You said everything I wanted to say...I just didn't get here in time

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You said everything I wanted to say...I just didn't get here in time

except that you should gladly keep moving everytime you get discplaced, upgrade or whatever the reason to move domiciles.....

If airlines had to choose pilots who would gladly live in domcile the pickins would be slim.....

 

[masedogg19]

except that you should gladly keep moving everytime you get discplaced, upgrade or whatever the reason to move domiciles.....

I'll keep that in mind.....