Air Force vs. Navy flying

[taxi1wire]

Network, network network, even in the service. I'd go ahead and submit packages to the units hiring while gathering all the intel I could on the units that aren't. All they can say is thanks for showing up, if they don't take you. Bottom line: Make things happen, go get it.


Good luck,
BTW, You are young only once. Get on with the unit you'd really like if you can, if not just get on with any unit, in the end, doing a little military flying is a great way to experience some unique things while at the same time giving something back to your country. Unique may equate to really shi$$y things by the way, but then freedom is not free and we all should shoulder some of the burden, what better way than by flying!
Don't be the guy that at age 45 laments and says, "Man, I sure wish I would have joined the service and flew some of those cool missions". I run into it now in my career and shake my head.


2 cents,
Good luck,
USN retired

 

[b707guy]

Usually, there are more, but it does seem to be overrun with Herc units. Scroll all the way down to the F-16 Wisconsin ANG ad. They're "ideal" candidate is a recent college grad with a technical degree and a pilot's license. I don't know about the first two qualifiers, but I'm pretty sure you meet the last one. I thought there were one or two more F-16 jobs hidden in there somewhere as well, but they change frequently, so keep checking.

It should never hurt to call on or pay a visit to any units that are in the area of your travels! Just don't become memorable to them by pushing it too far.

 

[bubble]

Network, network network, even in the service. I'd go ahead and submit packages to the units hiring while gathering all the intel I could on the units that aren't. All they can say is thanks for showing up, if they don't take you. Bottom line: Make things happen, go get it.


Good luck,
BTW, You are young only once. Get on with the unit you'd really like if you can, if not just get on with any unit, in the end, doing a little military flying is a great way to experience some unique things while at the same time giving something back to your country. Unique may equate to really shi$$y things by the way, but then freedom is not free and we all should shoulder some of the burden, what better way than by flying!
Don't be the guy that at age 45 laments and says, "Man, I sure wish I would have joined the service and flew some of those cool missions". I run into it now in my career and shake my head.


2 cents,
Good luck,
USN retired

I hear you. I was looking at another thread by the 29 y.o. pilot and I said the same thing to myself. I'm about 99% sure I'm going to go for it now. I'll keep you guys all posted, and again, thanks for the help.

If anyone has any pull with any fighter units I'd love to get into contact with you! I'm going to start calling around after the holidays.

Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[bubble]

Usually, there are more, but it does seem to be overrun with Herc units. Scroll all the way down to the F-16 Wisconsin ANG ad. They're "ideal" candidate is a recent college grad with a technical degree and a pilot's license. I don't know about the first two qualifiers, but I'm pretty sure you meet the last one. I thought there were one or two more F-16 jobs hidden in there somewhere as well, but they change frequently, so keep checking.

It should never hurt to call on or pay a visit to any units that are in the area of your travels! Just don't become memorable to them by pushing it too far.

That Wisconsin ad is out of date. I meet at least two out of the three qualifiers though. I'm 21 and graduated college in May, but it was a business degree. I'm currently flying for the state hauling people back and forth from the capitol to the outlying cities, and while it is fun, it is extremely routine and not very intense.

 

[DaveGriffin]

My theory on how the differences in the Air Force and Navy developed is this.

The AF evolved from the Army, which is a very top down organization. The smallest units are never really "over the horizon" They are always part of a larger force. The rules have been developed to keep the forces in the constant control of the guy in charge.

The Navy evolved from the tradition of trusting a Ships Capt with a set of goals and sending him over the horizon to accomplish them. Thus you tried to provide him with rules that guided his behavior, but didn't handcuff his initiative.

I think you see this reflected in the regulations of either service.

This is a great explanantion of the differences between AF and Navy.

The following excerpt from an Army magazine is a good example:

Field Artillery
Oct 2002 Interview with Major General Franklin L. Hagenbeck,
Commanding General, 10th Mountain Division (Light), Fort Drum, New York, and Commanding General, Coalition Joint Task Force Mountain in Afghanistan

By Robert H. McElroy, Fort Sill Public Affairs Specialist,
with Patrecia Slayden Hollis, Editor

Q What did you use for CAS and how effective was it?

A The most effective close air support asset we had was the Apache [AH-64 attack helicopter], hands down. The Apaches were extraordinary—they were lethal and survivable. We had six in the fight with two left flying at the end of the first day. They were so full of holes—hit all over, one took an RPG in the nose—I don’t know how they flew. But the maintenance guys from the 101st fixed every one. They got those helicopters back up and flying. The detainees later said the Apaches were the most feared weapons on the battlefield—
the helicopters were on top of them before they knew what was happening. The Apaches came as close to “one shot, one kill” as you can get. Our next most effective CAS assets were the A-10s in the daytime and AC-
130s at night. They were great. We also had F-16s and F/A-18s [fighter aircraft] and B-52s [bomber aircraft] providing CAS. For the most part, they carried JDAMs and some dumb bombs. Our fixed-wing pilots faced some procedural and maneuvering challenges. They had a very small view of the target areas from their cockpits—about the size of a postage stamp. (The Navy and Marine Corps fighter pilots routinely flew as low to the ground as they could to achieve the effects, even when it was below what was deemed minimum safe distance. They were terrific.) The Air Force had to work through airspace management—aircraft were stacked up to the ceiling and could only be flown in, in a few numbers.



Now fast forward 6 years to where we have the Petraeus COIN Doctrine, which minimizes the AF role in the war and maximizes the role of the guys on the ground...and guess what? We kick *ss.

The AF is more concerned with airspace management, rules, regs and creature comforts while Navy and Marine TACAIR guys are more focused on getting the job done.

AF TACAIR isn't a team player because in their mind they are the only guys on the team. But that's OK, with UCAVS and smart bombs getting smarter all the time we don't need them as much any more.

 

[USMCAirWinger]

DaveGriffin: Fake Navy Seal

 

[SIG600]

DaveGriffin: Fake Navy Seal

Yup. He deserves a solid ass kicking for representin'. Last I checked it was also criminal.

I've yet to meet a single USAF guy that didn't hold CAS and the full impact of his job near/dear to the heart. I've personally witnessed Vipers and Mudhens do extraordinary work in the middle of combat, when it really mattered. Dave is an ass with a chip on his shoulder.

 

[andy_paul]

Wow,the guy asked a simple question, and it turned in to a pissing match including ladyboys and all other things . NICE, you should be proud.

 

[SIG600]

Wow,the guy asked a simple question, and it turned in to a pissing match including ladyboys and all other things . NICE, you should be proud.

Just from Dave Griffin. He pretends to be a Seal, and does nothing but bash all things USAF. Not representative of anyone else here.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Yup. He deserves a solid ass kicking for representin'. Last I checked it was also criminal.

I've yet to meet a single USAF guy that didn't hold CAS and the full impact of his job near/dear to the heart. I've personally witnessed Vipers and Mudhens do extraordinary work in the middle of combat, when it really mattered. Dave is an ass with a chip on his shoulder.

SIG,

Only NFOs get all weepy and moist in their crevices over how great AF TACAIR pilots are.

Your pilot has more night carrier landings logged for his helmet bag than you do.

The problem with the AF isn’t the TACAIR pilots. It starts at the top. Gates sacked Wynne and the Chief of Staff because the senior guys who run the AF refuse to accept that the AF is part of a team and need to get in the game now.

 

[SIG600]

This message is hidden because DaveGriffin is on your ignore list.

Life is good!

 

[navigatro]

Being a Navy guy you've had quite a few in your mouth.

Don't ask, don't tell, don't swallow.

 

[learherkjay]

Back on topic...here are some observations about AF vs. Navy. First off, Navy regs are less onerous because the majority of Navy flying is over open water. That's why initial Pcola guys learn mostly VFR flying. Yes, the Navy does fly around the world; but the general focus of their flying is over water in and around the carrier. Not much to be stated when the focus of your ops is such. AF ops tends to be more focused on airfields. Thus the focus on airspace and flying regulations. Besides fighter ops, the Navy doesn't put large airplanes in formation to drop things or pass gas or coordinate. Missions like that necessitate a little more "rules."
Second thought, Naval aviation is a "component" of the Navy. We all know that it is "surface" guys who get all of the attention and command. Well, all the AF does is fly stuff. So, imagine the BS and minutia that the surface guys go through and that is what you get in the AF. AF flying doesn't get the benefit of being a secondary mission that Naval flying gets - so things tend to be a bit more controlled. Not right or wrong - but different...

 

[SIG600]

Back on topic...here are some observations about AF vs. Navy. First off, Navy regs are less onerous because the majority of Navy flying is over open water. That's why initial Pcola guys learn mostly VFR flying. Yes, the Navy does fly around the world; but the general focus of their flying is over water in and around the carrier. Not much to be stated when the focus of your ops is such. AF ops tends to be more focused on airfields. Thus the focus on airspace and flying regulations. Besides fighter ops, the Navy doesn't put large airplanes in formation to drop things or pass gas or coordinate. Missions like that necessitate a little more "rules."
Second thought, Naval aviation is a "component" of the Navy. We all know that it is "surface" guys who get all of the attention and command. Well, all the AF does is fly stuff. So, imagine the BS and minutia that the surface guys go through and that is what you get in the AF. AF flying doesn't get the benefit of being a secondary mission that Naval flying gets - so things tend to be a bit more controlled. Not right or wrong - but different...

There's a lot wrong with this statement. Mainly, no one ever gets introduced to boat flying until they actually go to the boat. We don't even fly the same break (unless you get luck, and can get a carrier break at the field). And as a matter of fact OPNAV specifically directs that pilots SHALL file IFR to the max extent possible.

We pass gas every day at the boat. The tanker will pass gas to as many as a dozen jets, all comm out. Ohbytheway, the majority of NA's will never fly around the carrier. P-3, E-6, a lot of Helo communitys, VR, etc. No boat time.

You are correct though in the fact that Naval Aviation is a cog in a bigger machine.

 

[learherkjay]

Your missing my point. I didn't say boat flying, I said "open water" flying. Yes, I know the Navy flies IFR to the max extent - but the origination of NATOPS is based on open water flying. That is the precursor to Navy training (yes it has changed slightly over the years). Yes, the Navy passes gas, but not with multiple tankers in trail over vast spaces to build an air bridge. Does that mean that the AF is worse because it regulates it more or that the Navy is better because they can "comm" out gas pass? No, it means that the AF tends put a lot more iron in the sky in a lot more airspace than Naval aviation. Not better or worse; just a different focus. E-6, P-3, and helos - focus of mission is open water flying. I am not knocking it, it is the mission of the Navy; hence the difference in "focus" of NATOPS vs AF Regs.

 

[DaveGriffin]

Life is good!

I knew it....NFO.