Air Force vs. Navy flying

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't see what all the fuss is about anyway. I have no control over who digs me. Midgets, ladyboys, chunkers, models, sluts, trans-testicles...you name it. I guess us AF pilots are just too sexy....most everyone loves us....but nobody more than ourselves!

That's the spirit!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I have no idea what you are talking about in the beginning of this post so I can't comment on it.

You could read it?

As for the rest of what you said I was hoping to "leave you out of it" but you decided to come on a forum that has nothing to do with you and make assinine jokes insulting homosexuals.

Are you uncomfortable with that?

Would Obama want you to say these things in public?

He hasn't called me yet to thank me for the vote. But when he does, I'll ask..... 'kay?

Why don't you try to add something worthwhile to the discussion of Navy v. Air Force...oh wait you can't because you never served, which begs the question why are you posting here?

Ahh... got it..... The ol' I've defended your freedom so it is I, the MIL guy, that gets to decide what your freedom will be.

Can I speak?

If I could, I'd say thanks for your service....

Why don't you post your anti-gay slurs on the RC or Homebuilt forums instead of wasting my time and everyone elses.

Or you could simply exercise your right not to read it.....?



Just sayin'

 

[skyward80]

In the USAF, our regs tell us what we CAN do in the air. In the Navy, their regs are more about what you CANNOT do in the air. I believe the Navy's way of doing things relies on the pilot's decision making much more. Of course, if something bad happens, the pilot may need to explain that decision making and without regs to back him up, it might be more difficult to have others see it his way.

The problem with the USAF way of doing things, is that the people who are supposed to make the decisions often make bad ones or wait until shift change to pass the buck to somebody else. I feel like I am usually left to clean up everybody else's mess.

Another thing I like about the Navy (also Marines) is that the fighter pilots are low-maintenance and very down to earth (think USAF A-10 pilot). It's almost like somebody told them that just because they fly fast, pointy jets doesn't mean they are a higher form of life... just a faster, higher-G capable form of life. Plus, they have bought me and my crew (tanker toads) beer more often than the USAF fighter dudes ever have.

The Navy has to get rid of the drogue refueling system. It bores my boom and it's VERY slow. Plus, the new guys keep stealing the basket.

Skyward80

 

[Mud Eagle]

In the USAF, our regs tell us what we CAN do in the air. In the Navy, their regs are more about what you CANNOT do in the air.

Still looking for that reg that tells me what I "can" do vs the one that tells me what I can't.

 

[HoursHore]

Still looking for that reg that tells me what I "can" do vs the one that tells me what I can't.

From the KC-135R Dash One:

PERMISSIBLE OPERATIONS. The Flight Manual takes a ‘‘positive approach’’ and normally
states only what you can do. Unusual operations or configurations (such as asymmetrical
loading) are prohibited unless specifically covered herein. Clearance from the gaining
MAJCOM must be obtained before any questionable operation, which is not specifically
permitted in this manual, is attempted. Before granting the clearance, the gaining MAJCOM
may request coordination or engineering assistance/approval from OC-ALC. Request should
be made through the Flight Manual Manager.

I don't have access to my old Natops manuals, so I don't know if that same clause is in there.

 

[skyward80]

That's what I was looking for. We have a similar clause in the KC-10 Dash 1. Plus, there's all that wonderful Vol 3 stuff.

The USAF's regs really try to stamp out gray areas (which is silly in aviation and doubly-so in military aviation) and makes things more cut and dry. At least, that was the goal. Personally, I think the Navy approach is a little better. The guy in the seat flying the jet knows the best way to get the mission done. It's better not to micromanage that.

Skyward80

 

[HoursHore]

Here's the Navy's version:

This instruction prescribes general flight and operating
instructions and procedures applicable to the
operation of all naval aircraft and related activities.
This instruction is not intended to cover every
contingency that may arise nor every rule of safety
and good practice. To achieve maximum value, the
contents of all directives cited must be studied and
understood. Routine interpretation and procedural
questions should be referred to type wing/type
command NATOPS offices for resolution prior to
referral to COMNAVAIRFOR. Where the need
arises, special instructions or waivers will be issued
by COMNAVAIRFOR.
b. In the tactical environment, military exigency may
require on-site deviations from instructions/procedures
contained here. The existing risk of deviation
must continually be weighed against the benefit of
deviating from this instruction. Deviation from
specified flight and operating instructions is authorized in emergency situations when, in the judgment
of the pilot in command, safety justifies such a
deviation.

 

[skyward80]

Yeah, if that was a USAF reg, the last line of your post would read something like this:

"Deviation from specified flight and operating instructions is not authorized without TACC getting involved. Please pass deviation requests via HF phone patch and allow at least 30 minutes for a deviation waiver. In the event somebody is afraid of attaching their name to the deviation waiver, you will be told to standby for shift change which may require you to wait for up to 12 hours. In the mean time, look sharp and hope for the best. Your compliance with this policy is mandatory and resistance is futile."

Skyward80

 

[sardaddy]

Here is the CG version. Close to Navy but not quite:

"The procedures discussed in this manual are to be used as guides and shall be carried out with sound professional judgement. This instruction is not intended to cover every contingency that may arise, nor every rule of flight safety and good practice.

Successful operations require the exercise of good judgement and common sense at all levels of command. When the need arises, special instructions or waivers will be issued by Commandant (CG711), However, in the operational environment, mission demands may require on scene deviation from prescribed instructions or procedures when, in the judgement of the pilot in command, such deviation is necessary for safety or the saving of life. Such deviation must not be taken lightly and must be tempered by maturity and a complete understanding of the aircraft, mission, and crew."

Although my favorite passage of our air ops manual is as follows: "The probability of saving human life warrants maximum effort....When no suitable alternatives exist and the mission has a reasonable chance of success, the risk of damage to or abuse of the aircraft is acceptable, even though such damage or abuse may render the aircraft unrecoverable."


In the Army the rules were simple, have 3 people sign your risk assessment before flying all but the most benign flights and if you do anything that is not listed on the assessment or clearly written in the regs we will have your ass.

 

[Huggyu2]

Interesting posts: I've always wondered "who" would post a "what I can do" AFI.
The two USAF flying communities I've been in have stated what I couldn't do. Seems to be a very different approach than what was posted above.

I guess that's maybe part of the reason I'm attracted to the community that I work in.