Air Force to UAL New Hire

[IBNAV8R]

I believe it was Curtis LeMay who started to wonder why most of the accidents seemed to have something in common. "We can't figure it out, he was the best stick in the unit." It seemed the "average" guys had relatively few mishaps.

 

[DCAA320]

Lol. What a homo.

You earned your nickname mr "sky nazi."

 

[waveflyer]

Well I have my own data from my airline that you don't have access to

Yeah, sure.
It's just you

Maybe the good civilians aren't applying to your job.

I say all this knowing the caveat that has hurt us in the argument is absolutely true: there are many weak civilian pilots. Not everyone with civilian backgrounds are the best. Of course not, and I still argue for better professional development on the civilian side.

The arrogance that I see is this notion that the military doesn't have many weak pilots in their ranks just the same as the civilian. Not bad enough to wash out, but not good

Why is that such a difficult concept for a military pilot to accept. Civilians deserve an EQUAL spot at the table at least.

And for those of you just lurking- mil pilots have a pretty god awful reputation on the line

(That would be AFTER training. You know the real part of our job. )

 

[pilotyip]

I believe it was Curtis LeMay who started to wonder why most of the accidents seemed to have something in common. "We can't figure it out, he was the best stick in the unit." It seemed the "average" guys had relatively few mishaps.

What he found was every time there was an accident he was told the pilot was one of hottest pilots in the outfit. So he started wondering why average pilots did not crash. What he found out was that average pilots did things like checklists followed SOP and operated within the design envelope of the airplane. SAC became known as the SOP nazis under Lemay

 

[DCAA320]

There is, in fact, a term for folks like you. It's ****************************** bag. Your comment indicates you have weak CRM skills, which is a very important component to being a good airline pilot.
There is good and not so good from both backgrounds, but the fact that you think "having landed on carrier" is synonymous with being a superior airline pilot pretty much identifies you with being clueless. I've known an awful lot of really good ex military pilots, just as good as any civil pilot. But they all let their flying do their talking. The cocky ones tend to be the weaker pilots who are rarely as good as they think they are.

No moron, there needs to be a level of competency.

For example, flying into Europe last week the civilian captain is verbally going over the missed approach procedures, except he was out of order so I am like no no no (so was the IRO) it's like this. WTF

My point is mil guys will know memory items and limits at the very least.

Also why do you civilians fall asleep so fast?

You don't know jack ******************** about CRM so don't try to preach to me.

 

[Dan Roman]

No moron, there needs to be a level of competence.

For example, flying into Europe last week the civilian captain is verbally going over the missed approach procedures, except he was out of order so I am like no no no (so was the IRO) it's like this. WTF

Also why do you civilians fall asleep so fast?

You don't know jack ******************** about CRM so don't try to preach to me.

Actually, you don't know me so you don't know what my background is ( your mistaken about my experience with CRM) Your other mistake is generalizing about mistakes as being exclusively a civil or military issue. Pilots from ALL backgrounds make mistakes. It's the perception that one or the other is more prone that is erroneous. Again, the most dangerous are the ones that think they are somehow immune to mistakes because of their background.

You are making generalization's because you don't have the experience or ability to see reality. Almost all military pilots are outstanding, so are almost all civil pilots, there are weak in both ranks though.

 

[sat74]

We fall asleep fast so we don't have to deal with arrogant dbags like you!

 

[DCAA320]

We fall asleep fast so we don't have to deal with arrogant dbags like you!

Seriously, I bring 2 ipads and cannot believe someone would bring nothing to read on a 10 hour flight.

 

[Dan Roman]

We fall asleep fast so we don't have to deal with arrogant dbags like you!

That's a good point even if it was said tongue in cheek. Any pilot that constantly complains about co workers, whatever the reason, is generally the cause of the problem. Most pilots from all backgrounds are fine ( once you get to an airline you do, in fact, meet a general level of competence). If an individual is having problems with who he is flying with it is because HE is the problem. It simply is not that hard to competently get the job done, unless you are a doosh. In that case, YOU are the problem. Not the people you are working with.

 

[Dan Roman]

Seriously, I bring 2 ipads and cannot believe someone would bring nothing to read on a 10 hour flight.

Dude, you keep burying yourself as being self important and judge mental.
You really are no better than those you are pointing fingers at. No ones perfect, you sound like one of those that finds fault with others to try and make yourself look better.

 

[DCAA320]

.........

 

[DCAA320]

That's a good point even if it was said tongue in cheek. Any pilot that constantly complains about co workers, whatever the reason, is generally the cause of the problem. Most pilots from all backgrounds are fine ( once you get to an airline you do, in fact, meet a general level of competence). If an individual is having problems with who he is flying with it is because HE is the problem. It simply is not that hard to competently get the job done, unless you are a doosh. In that case, YOU are the problem. Not the people you are working with.

My bad, more exception than the rule, but I don't expect guys to pass out 30 minutes into the flight.

I like most of my co-workers.

 

[sat74]

My bad, more exception than the rule, but I don't expect guys to pass out 30 minutes into the flight.

I like most of my co-workers.

But do your co-workers like YOU? Probably not after reading your posts. Going back to sleep now...

 

[DCAA320]

But do your co-workers like YOU? Probably not after reading your posts. Going back to sleep now...

They touch me a lot, as far as female FA, so u tell me.

 

[pilotyip]

Maybe the good civilians aren't applying to your job.

That is most likely true. The only true airline people we have had apply are guys who lost their jobs, like Comair, Airborne, UPS, etc. They go through training and checking with no problems, but they do not stay long while looking for their next job. But we get a lot civilian pilots who have not been through a sturctered training program, they have a high failure rate. The miitarty guys we get are normally guys who have not flown for a few years and want to get back into flying airplanes or helo pilots with low fixed wing time. They are as easy to train as the experienced airline guys, even though their flight time is much lower. They understand a structured airline training environment, call outs, checklists, profiles, etc. One thing I never hear from the militarily guys is "Well that is not the way we did it at XYZ, this sucks". I think we turn out a decent product, we have not had any of our pilots who made PIC at JUS fail in their next job. They go places like SWA, AAL, DAL, JB, UPS, FedEx, etc