Air Cargo Carriers interview

[Elie7Elie]

Aaaaa

 

[SkyBoxFO]

I understand if your a little dissapoint that you didnt get the job with Air Cargo, but all of your complaints seem like they stem from your lack of skills in the simulator. I understand if you got bad vectors and that the sim sucks donkey balls because its handles bad, but the rest of your complaints hold no ground.

1. Nobody flies single pilot IFR without an autopilot.....Have you ever heard of AmFlight. They fly Beech 99's and Beech 1900's single pilot without an auto pilot, hmmm....wierd. Everytime i see those guys land they seem to have there gear down, and I bet its not because there is a midget thats jumps out from the back when they forget their gear.

2. The simulator is not realistic for the job......Chatauqua interviews in a PCATD that handles badly and they put you through an emergency. You had to fly an ILS on microsoft flight sim, and they make you fly a single engine ILS and go missed. Don't they fly ERJ's.....with 2 pilots? Hmmm...wierd again.

Sorry to bash you, but venting over a bad interview by complaining on flightinfo is no way get a job, especially when it was your fault the interview went bad. Plenty of pilots with half the time the were just flight instructors go through that interview and do very well. You seem to have turbine time and a decent amount of experience so don't expect to get coddled and told to go around when you forget the gear. If I were in your place I would apply to a FED EX Feeder that flys caravans (they have fixed gear) until you catch on to the 'gear down three green' thing or keep flyin that fixed gear Islander.

I think its a good company to work for (thats not the corporate koolaide talking) because the people are nice and the flyings fun. Im saying that and I make enough just to stay homeless, so yah I would be mad if I messed up too. Suck it up and reapply or rock on flyin the caravans.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

?????????????????????????????

 

[Elie7Elie]

I am surprised that you were able to read it. Because right after I wrote it I erased it. And i did it for that reason, I did not want anyone to think I was complaining, because I was not. I just had a question at the end that I geniuly wanted answered. And that you did not answer. I did not ask you to comment about my flying capabilities, so keep your comments to yourself because I don't give a rats a** about what you think in regards to that. And yes indeed, it seems like a good company and the ACC pilots I met are a great bunch. Asking a question does not mean I am saying that they are not a good bunch.

But that's why erased it, so that half-brain pilots like you don't take it in the wrong way. And you are sorry that you are bashing me? If you are sorry then why are you bashing? Well I am bashing you in return, and guess what, I don't feel sorry. Since you replied, I have to post the question again, for other users with some BRAINS that may have an answer:

Here was my question:

Why is Air Cargo Carriers testing your single pilot IFR abilities, and any other company for that matter that only fly 2 crew aircraft, when you are going to be in a CRM environement? Why don't they pair you up with someone and put you in situation and see how you use your CRM skill? for example like PSA and ASA does. What is going to come up in the single pilot IFR flight test that is going to tell them what kind of pilot the candidate is in a 2 crew cockpit? Anyone other than Skybox with an answer?

 

[Elie7Elie]

and by the way, since you fly corporate, maybe I'll refresh your memory about 135 regs . . . Any US Operator flying an airplane IFR under a 135 or 121 certificate requires either an autopilot or an SIC . . . get your facts checked.

 

[rway36]

Elzie 7

I suggest you check the regs. I fly single pilot 135 everynight with no autopilot. I suggest you grow up and go flight instruct for awhile and earn your stripes. Nobody gives them to you. Trust me.....with your time.....you have not experienced much just sittin in the right seat.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

Ellie,

You have a point about the multi crew CRM etc, but I don't think they were soo much after evaluating your single pilot IFR skills but more just a basic general IFR procedures check. Their sim ride fit that requirement.

From memory they didn't give you any emergencies to deal with as they know you will be a two crew cockpit and so will cover that elsewhere.

Maybe if you ran down the jist of your experience we could give some feedback.

On the plus side there are lots of opportunities out there and every interview is an experience that one can learn and take something from for the next one!

 

[HowlinMadMurdoc]

and by the way, since you fly corporate, maybe I'll refresh your memory about 135 regs . . . Any US Operator flying an airplane IFR under a 135 or 121 certificate requires either an autopilot or an SIC . . . get your facts checked.

Dang, then my former 135 employer was in violation of the regs since NONE of our planes had autopilots and we flew single-pilot...

NOT!

Oh, what's that 135 reg you're quoting??? You know, because you're such an expert.

Why don't YOU get your facts checked before making yourself look like an ass.

Rant over...


HMM

 

[DC3PLT1]

and by the way, since you fly corporate, maybe I'll refresh your memory about 135 regs . . . Any US Operator flying an airplane IFR under a 135 or 121 certificate requires either an autopilot or an SIC . . . get your facts checked.

I love this stuff. The young pilot just needs a little more instruction prior to being removed from the tit.

If you refer to 135.105 it will REFER YOU TO 135.99 which may help the "tit removal process".

STUDY my friend. It will payoff someday for ya.

Later

 

[Elie7Elie]

135.101 Except as provided in 135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.

135.105
(a) Except as provided in 135.99 and 135.111, unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR, a person may operate an aircraft without a second in command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system and the use of that system is authorized by appropriate operations specifications.

(b) The certificate holder may apply for an amendment of its operations specifications to authorize the use of an autopilot system in place of a second in command.

rway36, why don't you go back to school and learn you regs, and perhaps I'll be your flight instructor

HowlingMadMurdoc, your previous company must have been an all cargo operations, strictly VFR operations, or in violation.

 

[wheelsup]

What is going to come up in the single pilot IFR flight test that is going to tell them what kind of pilot the candidate is in a 2 crew cockpit? Anyone other than Skybox with an answer?

It's going to show them that you know how to fly approaches...and are trainable. It would certainly suck to have a captain that doesn't remember to put the gear down... The HR interview shows your CRM skills, and how you interact with other people.

I hate to bust your bubble, but AWAC does the same thing - single pilot sim. Maybe when you start your own airline and control how the interviewing is done you can make it a CRM interview.

~wheelsup

P.S. The sim was easy.

EDIT:

previous company must have been an all cargo operations, strictly VFR operations, or in violation.

ACC's aircraft are cargo only. When I interviewed, I seem to remember them mentioening that they don't have autopilot either.

 

[DC3PLT1]

135.101 Except as provided in 135.105, no person may operate an aircraft carrying passengers under IFR unless there is a second in command in the aircraft.

135.105
(a) Except as provided in 135.99 and 135.111, unless two pilots are required by this chapter for operations under VFR, a person may operate an aircraft without a second in command, if it is equipped with an operative approved autopilot system and the use of that system is authorized by appropriate operations specifications.

(b) The certificate holder may apply for an amendment of its operations specifications to authorize the use of an autopilot system in place of a second in command.

rway36, why don't you go back to school and learn you regs, and perhaps I'll be your flight instructor

HowlingMadMurdoc, your previous company must have been an all cargo operations, strictly VFR operations, or in violation.

This is the kind of pilot who we love to beat in the parking lot following a long day. I would not hire you. Maybe your attitude showed at the interview.

You are asking about a cargo company which is why your answers about the autopilot were answered the way they were.

GOOD LUCK TO YOU MY FRIEND

 

[DC3PLT1]

After reading your childish rants on here, I sincerley hope you didn't get hired. You sound like you will be nothing but a whiney burden to any captain you fly with.

Tell me, at 900 hours, how much CRM experience do you have? Do you know how to effectively manage and coordinate a crew? ACC is trying to put you through your paces and see how you can handle yourself. They are looking for IFR skills. How many 121/135 interviews have you even gone through? Can you effectively compare various different hiring processes?

If things went bad for you, I'm sorry. But flying night freight in a Shorts with no autopilot is no place for immaturity, or poor IFR skills. Most ACC newhires come in with little to no crew experience. That is why the hiring process is geared to that. It would be a very unfair practice to throw someone with minimal total aviation experience and expect them to work immedately in a crew.

If you thought you were treated unfairly, I'm sorry. But this is aviation, suck it up, go to other interviews and move on. I've been turned down before, and it does suck, but you should learn and grow from every experience.

Now I didn't see the original post, but if you DID get the job, drop the attitude FAST. Because any number of the line captains and IOE captains will not tolerate it. Period. That includes those who will be doing your training and your checkride.

ACC is a good company, and with good equipment and good people. I enjoyed my time there and still fly as a part-time line captain.

Don't come throwing stones if you're not prepared to come face to face with people who have the knowledge and experience to tell you to STFU. Which many of the above posters have and have done.

Cheers

DITTO

 

[Elie7Elie]

The proper thing to do was to bite my lip even though I was bashed, so appologies to all those I have offended.

speaking of CRM and interview qualifications, I can totaly understand why at 900 hours you may think that I have none of these, but I do because I worked at a non-flying position at a 121 carrier ops department for 4 years and I worked closely with the CP, DO, and Director of Training. I saw all kinds of pilots attitudes, CRM, Training, and was involved in the interview process. I went into that job with the mentality of a single pilot can do all, then quickly found out how a better pilot you are when you use your resources. Which led me to ask the question about ACC.

You are 100% correct this kind of attitude does not belong in the cockpit and I saw it coming which is why I erased the message. My intentions were simply to ask a question, not to put anyone down or any company. Then I quickly realized what it could lead to and I earased it, but not soon enough before Skybox read it.

My sim ride with ACC was fair and they threw nothing at me that would not happen in the real world. And they are a great bunch of pilots. No complaints, no excues, just a question which I erased too late.

 

[SkyBoxFO]

I really wish everyone could have read what you wrote, but if it makes you happy just let me know and ill erase my response. Your orignal sounded like you were bashing the company for your problems at the interview so i responded in the same manner.

 

[machaf]

I did the sim yesterday too. I was the first one to go. I couldn't get the glide slope on the ILS to stay steady. While fixating on that I didn't get the gear down or add flaps. In the airplanes I fly we do not use flaps on the approaches. Now I understand large aircraft require flaps. I think they could have spent a little more time going over what we were going to be doing because flying that sim and looking down at the approach chart and leaning over to check the radio stack doesn't work very well. The whole setup is kinda cheap. Its not setup properly to be viewable. They need to look at the Human Factors SHEL model and see why instrument proficient pilots are doomed to fail with that sim.

It flys nothing like any sim I have flown. I have a fair amount of sim experience (CL-65, Frasca242/141, Vectors). A Frasca in Hypertwin mode is easier than this sim.

Things might have went better if they had given us time to look over the approach we were doing and giving us some time to get use to the sim.

Oh well. Looks like a good company and good people.

 

[rway36]

Pu##

Elie....I know my regs. I haul boxes you little B!t@#. Something you wish you could do. ACC is cargo....the regs we care about are cargo not paxs. All you whiners need to find another career. A sim is a sim. Get in there and fly it and shut up!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[N7167L]

I did the sim yesterday too. I was the first one to go. I couldn't get the glide slope on the ILS to stay steady. While fixating on that I didn't get the gear down or add flaps. In the airplanes I fly we do not use flaps on the approaches. Now I understand large aircraft require flaps. I think they could have spent a little more time going over what we were going to be doing because flying that sim and looking down at the approach chart and leaning over to check the radio stack doesn't work very well. The whole setup is kinda cheap. Its not setup properly to be viewable. They need to look at the Human Factors SHEL model and see why instrument proficient pilots are doomed to fail with that sim.

It flys nothing like any sim I have flown. I have a fair amount of sim experience (CL-65, Frasca241/142, Vectors).

Things might have went better if they had given us time to look over the approach we were doing and giving us some time to get use to the sim.

Oh well. Looks like a good company and good people.

If able, please provide more details on the sim ride...

What airport(s)?

Is the sim utilizing Microsoft's Flight Simulator software?
(PCATD)

What was the profile? (e.g. takeoff, vectors, ILS to MAP, hold as published, etc. etc.)

--

Thanks!!

 

[machaf]

If able, please provide more details on the sim ride...

What airport(s)?

Is the sim utilizing Microsoft's Flight Simulator software?
(PCATD)

What was the profile? (e.g. takeoff, vectors, ILS to MAP, hold as published, etc. etc.)

--

Thanks!!

Here are the details: Interviews know the gouge is out there, so do not expect same thing.

SIM is Flight Sim 2004 in a Baron.


Takeoff MKE. Direct to ENW VOR - " Hold on the 260 radial, 5 DME legs". After you make proper entry, vectors to ENW VOR 16/15?? Go missed. Vectored to ENW ILS 9. Nothing hard at all. Holding altitude in the sim is very difficult, it is very touchy.

 

[SET RTOP!]

I did the sim yesterday too. I was the first one to go. I couldn't get the glide slope on the ILS to stay steady. While fixating on that I didn't get the gear down or add flaps. In the airplanes I fly we do not use flaps on the approaches. Now I understand large aircraft require flaps. I think they could have spent a little more time going over what we were going to be doing because flying that sim and looking down at the approach chart and leaning over to check the radio stack doesn't work very well. The whole setup is kinda cheap. Its not setup properly to be viewable. They need to look at the Human Factors SHEL model and see why instrument proficient pilots are doomed to fail with that sim.

It flys nothing like any sim I have flown. I have a fair amount of sim experience (CL-65, Frasca242/141, Vectors). A Frasca in Hypertwin mode is easier than this sim.

Things might have went better if they had given us time to look over the approach we were doing and giving us some time to get use to the sim.

Oh well. Looks like a good company and good people.

So your excues for not putting the gear down is....?

Remember gang, interviews are suposed to be difficult. This job is difficult at times. If it wasn't, a computer would have all our jobs by now!

And it isn't as if you didnt know what to expect, the gouge is pretty thick!

I know it is disapointing but coming on here and saying anything that could be interpreted as negitave is a bad idea! This is a small industry!

You messed up...admit it...learn form it...move on.

BTW. From what I hear, they are hiring plenty of people. So somebody knows how to fly that thing.


SET RTOP, FLAPS 15!!!

 

[machaf]

So your excues for not putting the gear down is....?

Remember gang, interviews are suposed to be difficult. This job is difficult at times. If it wasn't, a computer would have all our jobs by now!

And it isn't as if you didnt know what to expect, the gouge is pretty thick!

I know it is disapointing but coming on here and saying anything that could be interpreted as negitave is a bad idea! This is a small industry!

You messed up...admit it...learn form it...move on.

BTW. From what I hear, they are hiring plenty of people. So somebody knows how to fly that thing.


SET RTOP, FLAPS 15!!!

If you read my post I made no excuse for not putting the gear down. I attributed it to me FIXATING on altitude/glide slope control.

I know plenty of people who have passed the sim. So I blame nobody but my self.
I didn't say anything negative about the company.

 

[Photoflight]

BTW. From what I hear, they are hiring plenty of people. So somebody knows how to fly that thing.

Tell 'em to hurry up and call me would you.

 

[SkyBoxFO]

I really think everyone needs a gear midget that jumps out everytime you forget 'gear down, three green'. Seems like a common problem, let me know if anyones interested in the midget idea.

 

[Elie7Elie]

Here's how it went step by step, it will also be posted on aviation interviews.com

Started at 8 a.m. with the written test, straight off the FAA written instrument, so no big surprises, passed wihtout a problem. First guy goes in the sim, did not pass and was sent home, I was the second one in. I have read at flightinfo.com by a previous applicant that they make you take off at JVL Wisconsin and then go to MSN do a hold and shoot approaches, so I practiced doing approaches into MSN. I also practiced on the King Air because I knew the power settings. To my surprise, it was totally different airports being used. Allright, that's fine I was up to it. You are given a few minutes to look over approaches and set up the radios. He had the Baron set up, but I asked him if I can use the King Air instead and he was ok with that. I was to take off MKE and go to Kenosha I beleive is the name of the airport never heard of it before as I have never flew in Wisconsin. First mistake I made and 1 of only 2, was not set the flaps for take off. You are expected to set everything on your own. No big deal, just took me longer to rotate. Took off MKE and proceeded to a VOR via radar vectos. Everything is going fine no problem, did a hold, did it good that he did not even make me hold once, I did my tear drop, turned around and centered the needle all while maintaining my altitude. Now time to shoot an ILS. At first I thought he would pause the sim so I can brief the approach and take a look at it one more time. Not so, I asked him if he wants me to brief the approach, he said as far as I am concerned, you are a single pilot, so you can brief it to yourself. Well, yeah, in real life, for 135 I would either have an autopilot, or an SIC that would take over flying so I can look over the approach. But that's fine, I was up the challenge, I devided my attention while being vectored for the ILS and looked over the approach one more time and set up my radios and navs. He brought me in tight so that my glideslope started to come in before my LOC was alive, no problem hapens in real life all the time, gear down flaps down and as soon as I got established on the LOC I was already passing OM. Ok fine, now time to set up my radios for the missed. The missed was an NDB, and my NDB needle was dead. So now I am thinking shoot, how am I going to go missed? Missed was climb to 2400 and then turn to NDB so I concentrated on shooting the ILS and I figured I would deal with the NDB later. Stayed on the LOC and Glideslope all the way down! had a lot of problems keeping the GS centered, espescially at the end because the yoke would get stuck. I would try to make very small correction in the yoke, but nothing would move in the airplane, when I try to pull a little bid harder on it, it woudl spring! Like it would get stuck on something then offloads! Never the less, still was on my GS and LOC at DH. Of course no contact so going missed, gear up accelerated to flaps up speed and flaps up, and yes I did remember to put the gear down during the ILS, cause my cue was the GS and I also looked over the checklist at 500 feet and said to myself gear down 3 green. Now on the missed, I am climbing, I was trying to figure out what the heck is going on with the NDB. He had actually told me before we started the sim session that sometimes the NAV2 stops working, I had just forgot about it in all that mess, but never the less, before I got to 2400 feet he told me that plans were changed and gave me a heading to go to. He vectored me around now for a VOR approach. And here's where things went wrong. During practices, my reminder to put the gear down is one dot below on ILS and on non-precison usually after I finish my procedure turn and get established on the final approach fix. He brought me in tight again and high this time for a VOR approach. I was at 3000 feet and the procedure turn altitude is 2500, plus the OM altitude is 2000 and MDA is 1200 feet. That's fine, you do get into those situation in the real world, especially in the northeast so that's not unreasonable. I was at about 6 DME at 3000 feet during the intercept and the OM is at 4 DME at 2000 feet, the MDA was at the VOR at 1200 feet. Ok, so I have 6 miles in a King Air to loose 1800 feet, no big deal. Except that now my attention was focused on loosing the altitude as quickly as I can and this is where I forgot to put the gear down. In addition to that, I was also still irritated because I could not figure out why I the NDB was not working. But even with all these challenges I did it! I descended fast enough that I was holding the airplane at 1200 for a little bit before I saw the runway lights. I could have easily ran the checklist and realized that the gear was not down, but did not do it. Off course, I landed on the runway with gears up and crashed the airplane. No excuses whatsoever. In real life I always remember to do my GUMP at 500 feet, and this time I was distracted and forgot. So I have no one to blame but me. He looked me at the end and he said "man you did so good on the whole session, but there is nothing I can do once you crash the sim, it's out of my hands. I would love to have you back in six month as you did well on the written and on the sim. If you don't get another job in 6 months please reaply". He did everything as it would happen in real life. For example on the ILS missed approach while I was trying to figure out what the heck was going on with my NDB needle, I went off my heading, and he said "night cargo 100 say heading" and that's when I looked and saw I was off the rnw heading and came back to it. That's exactly what ATC does in real life. he did not do anything that would not happen in real life.

I am no cry baby, if someone puts me up to a challenge I do it. If I fail, at least I know I tried and I did my best.

wheelsup, it's true AWAC makes you do a single pilot approach in the King Air. According to the gouges, you can see the whole session and download the profile from pearlaviation.com I think you can practice it a day before as well. Also, IBC, Merlin and Air Florida Cargo all are 135 cargo operators that either use an autopilot or SIC. And so does ACC, no autopilot, but at least an SIC. That's why I said in real life . . .

Does that mean that ACC put me in an unfair situation? NO, I was presented with a challenge, I steped up to the plate and I failed. There are many other pilots that had to go through the same thing I did and they succeeded. There are no excuses. You can bet now I'll never forget to put the gear down for the rest of my life. And good thing it happened in the sim and not in real life. I am actually looking at it in a positive way.

Again that is why I erased the origional post, because I did not want anyone to think I was complaing. Alas! I did not do it fast enough.

 

[SkyBoxFO]

Sim info: Its is Microsoft Flight Sim 2004. You sit in a chair in front of a computer screen that is built into a wooden wall. There is a simple throtte set-up along with plastic rudder pedals and a nav stack that is comparable to a Frasca 142. The interview sits a another computer screen that has an ATC view.

Sim Flight: The instructor allows you to look over the controls/nav stack and ask any questions and also briefs you on how to use everthing. After that he gives you a stack of plates and a map and asks you to plan a x-country to an airport about 50 miles away. You find a route, write down all the freq's and anything esle you need. No time/distance stuff. After takeoff you intercept your air way and he may give you a hold along the way. When arriving at the airport I shot a VOR/DME and had to go missed, do the published missed, and then be vectored for an ILS. the ILS was to a full stop landing. There are no tricks or emergencies along the way, the important thing to remember is to talk your way through everything, brief the approach and tune & Identify. Basically 2 approaces and 2 holds for me.
The Sim ride is based on a point scale, so one mistake probably won't mean much. I could be wrong, but at the end he had a list and everything had a score next to it. If you pass the sim, you move on.

The only other things are the HR interview and the Instrument written.

 

[flyinlow67]

First mistake I made and 1 of only 2, was not set the flaps for take off. You are expected to set everything on your own. No big deal, just took me longer to rotate.

Actually, it can be a big deal. A REALLY big deal in some aircraft. The "No Big Deal" attitude is what will keep you from getting hired quicker than forgetting something in a sim.
Accidents are a chain of "no big deals".

 

[Elie7Elie]

boy this is never going to end. Everything I say now is going to be disected and misunderstood. Yes, not setting the flaps is a BIG deal, that's why Northwest DC-9 crashed and that's why Douglas added a warning horn when you push the throttle forward without settings flap.

So clarification: The no big deal in my previous statement, is not that it's no big deal not to set the flaps, it's no bid deal meaning I realized the mistake but moved on and focused on what to come

 

[wheelsup]

boy this is never going to end

It's never going to end because you sound like a whiny b!tch.

While its true you fly an ILS at AWAC, when you go for the real sim interview it's a different approach, so your theory about looking at the profile is invalid. I can't believe you're whining about not being able to fly the approaches before the interview.

If I remember correctly you never even used the Nav2 on the interview @ ACC. I used the Nav 1 and RMI exclusively. The sim guy told me that before I even started...

Also, why did you pick the king air? The baron flies much slower. I can understand you picked it because you had time in it, but c'mon, use some common sense here.

~wheelsup

 

[Elie7Elie]

"While its true you fly an ILS at AWAC, when you go for the real sim interview it's a different approach, so your theory about looking at the profile is invalid."

According the the gouges and the sim profile, on the day before you practice the ILS 7R in MKE. On the interview date, you do the ILS 29 in ATW and you are told so and given a copy of the approach. Also, on the interview date, they stop the sim, have you look over the approach and brief it. They actually tell you that even though it is a King Air, they have set up the profile as it is a jet and want you to see you manage it as such (Don't mess with the prop settings) They excpect you to check airspeed at 80 kts and annouce check, climb up to 1000 feet and accelerate to flaps up speed, call 1000 above DH, 500 above DH, 100 above DH, etc. They don't make you hold, they just want to see if you call the right entry. They fail the ADI on the missed but just want to see if you notice it and then they end the session, they don't make you enter or fly the holding pattern without the ADI.

Wheelsup, did I call you names? Why are you calling me by names then?

 

[N7167L]

Elie7Elie,

Many thanks for the detailed report!
(I hope ACC gives me a call!)

Hang in there; only some light-chop... you will find smooth-air ahead.