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Air Attack/Tanker, Helo Pilots

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rchcfi

How slow can you go
Joined
Sep 18, 2002
Posts
385
Anyone out there flying fires this season? I just reverted back to Air Attack this past week, as our jet is in the process of being sold. I spent the better part of the last 2 weeks flying on the Southern Nevada Complex. On a side note, it sure was nice to have more heavies to help suppress this fire that was bigger than the state of Rhode Island.
 
Did you guys go into firefighting from ag work, the airlines, military, A&P or what? I'm just curious because it seem so different from any other type of flying and I'm wondering what makes you qualified in the eyes of an employer to do it. Also, how long do you think the Neptunes and old DC's will be around?
 
Did you guys go into firefighting from ag work, the airlines, military, A&P or what? I'm just curious because it seem so different from any other type of flying and I'm wondering what makes you qualified in the eyes of an employer to do it. Also, how long do you think the Neptunes and old DC's will be around?

How long will the P2's be around? We can only guess. Until some other pinheaded fool tries to stake his career on destroying the industry, ala Tony Kern, et al, this last go-around. Hopefully a long time. The Douglass products are for the most part, history, with the exception of some private state contracts. More is the pity, because they have perhaps the best safety record of all.

As far as getting into fire work, there's no background that will prepare you or give you an edge. If you're going to fly single engine air tankers, an ag background is a good start...pretty much a requisite to meet basic insurance requirements is a thousand hours of ag. For large air tankers, plan on no vacancies for ten to twenty years.

Having a mechanic certificate is a big plus; most everyone flying tankers turns wrenches on them, or is qualified to do so. Not all, but most.

If backgrounds are to be considered, an ag background is probably best, airline and military the worst. One company for whom I flew, although staffed in management by former military, staunchly refused to even entertain anyone with an airline or military background because of the extremely poor track record of those who had come and gone before. No slight...but not one I ever met made it very far in the tanker world. Most didn't want to get their hands dirty, couldn't make the commitment, didn't want to work, and when it came to flying slow and close to terrain under the conditions required in limited performance aircraft, felt it was too dangerous or beneath them. A few exceptions exist, but not many.

Conversely, coming from tankers to an airline environment...many employers look unfavorably on a tanker past. Unjustifiably, the image of the tanker pilot has been one of a cowboy, despite a very professional community getting the job done.

If you are able to get a seat, usually you can plan on five to ten years to upgrade, often flying a hundred hours a year, with an income period of three to ten months...during which time you probably won't see your family, your home, or much away from the tanker base.

USFS bases are getting quite plush now, with flushing toilets and electricity, and some downright nice furnishings in most. BLM bases in many cases still don't have electricity, running water, or flush toilets. It's not the world that a lot of folks envision as their dream environment.

As far as being qualified in the eyes of the employer...either you'll work out or you won't. Folks need to understand that no matter what their background, weather a retired airline pilot, seasoned corporate or freight pilot, veteran military pilot, or whomever, when hired into the tanker, they're a green copilot with a status just slightly lower than that of a fresh student pilot...and they'll remain there for some time while they learn. The penalties and attendant odds are much more stark than almost any other flying job, or nonflying job for that matter, as borne out by the statistics...it's not merely an employer who likes you...you get no slack, no breaks, and no quick trip to the top or upgrade...you learn slowly, and there's little that will give you a leg up or a head start.

My goal from the time I was a student pilot was to fight fire in airplanes. After being a structural and wildland firefighter on the ground, an EMT, flying air attack and fire patrol, and having an ag background plus other experience, I had nearly ten years of pounding doors, mailing resumes, calling, visiting, and hounding tanker companies before I got a foot in. During that time, I did all kinds of other flying, from cargo to charter to skydivers to airline to government to backcountry, to banner towing, flying skydivers, gliders, instructing, cargo and everything in between...whatever I could find, including turning wrenches on airplanes and a lot of extra jobs doing many non-flying things...nearly two decades total, before having a shot. Others luck out and find a place quicker...but then it's still really luck of the draw.

Technical qualifications don't mean much...the ability to get the job done in field conditions in a hundred eighty degree cockpit with your eyes full of sweat on the takeoff, at gross from a small short high altitude field surrounded by obstacles, launching into low visibility in mountainous terrain in strong winds and turbulence, day after day without any clear end in sight, and then come back at the end of the day to scrub and clean and oil and prepare for tomorrow (which comes early)...mean a whole lot more.

What makes you qualified in the eyes of an employer? Beats me.
 

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