Age 67?

[pilotyip]

Oh I'll take all the shots at Yip I want. And for great reason. He's spends damn near every post on FI trying to devalue the profession.

Yep that is me, I have single handedly destroyed this once fantastic industry. Besides it is very fashionable to beat up on old people, they are so defenseless with engaging with those middle aged quick minded masters of thought. I fly because I like to, I love hanging around airports, pilot chat rooms, bought a house in the traffic pattern at KYIP, own my own airplane, pass my skills along to the next generation of flyers. For me life is good.

BTW This is all about freedom of thought, an American trademark, given to us by the sacrifices of the veterans over year that we celebrated yesterday.

 

[flyboyike]

Yep that is me, I have single handedly destroyed this once fantastic industry.

Well, you see, one bubonic plague bacterion doesn't start an epidemic either, but....

 

[Smarta$$]

Once folks get used to handouts, they forget how to work for what they want. The next natural reaction, as Wave proves, is resentment when the handout isn't big enough.

Waveflyer is a perfect moniker: riding on energy produced somewhere else!

Wave doesn't want a hand out.

But what do you consider benefiting personally all those years from retirements, but now that it is your turn to step aside, you say no.....

Wave flyer is right on the money. As he usually is.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Way to go capt d-bag. Why don't you just give a trip or two away every month and make your $200k
Never enough though for the boomers.

Waddya call that?

You can waste your time dreaming of a mass walk-out, national seniority list, end of RJs, end of code shares, and stratospheric pay rates and at the end of the day, do you know what you've got? - USAPA.

All dreams with no connection to reality and no tangible results.

It's wave and his type that irritate me because they have no idea why pilot pay was ever significantly high to begin with, and therefore have no understanding of why it will never return to those levels. In their ignorance, they spin their wheels and waste their youth trying to pit one group against another rather than unifying the entire group on issues that they have some influence on.

The folks making decisions on retirement ages or rules will not take the opinions of a relatively small number of people (the entire airline pilot population) to heart when crafting these rules when the rules are transparent feather bedding with no basis in safety.

If you truly believe that the safety of the traveling public will be compromised by eliminating retirement ages, then you are morally obligated to work to increase the medical standards and administrative oversight of ALL pilots. If you are unwilling to risk your own career with the adoption of more stringent standards, then be honest with yourself and admit that you advocate taking from the older to give to the younger and give up the "cognitive abilities" crap.

Sorry, wave is way off on this one.

 

[flyboyike]

If you truly believe that the safety of the traveling public will be compromised by eliminating retirement ages, then you are morally obligated to work to increase the medical standards and administrative oversight of ALL pilots. If you are unwilling to risk your own career with the adoption of more stringent standards, then be honest with yourself and admit that you advocate taking from the older to give to the younger and give up the "cognitive abilities" crap.

It can be both. One can be petrified by the gummers' declining brain power AND want to have the same thing said gummers had in their time. You know, the whole career progression thing.

 

[waveflyer]

Most of that rant was invalid- but I liked that last part. I just disagree. We all know that time stands still for no one- eventually we'll all be too old to fly - what I'm saying is that just as we don't allow captain's younger than 23 - we ought not allow captains older than 60.

until you work to repeal age 23 discrimination, you won't see me helping you stay longer.

Which is exactly the point- used to be pilots retired young enough that it didn't warrant increased scrutiny of the masses- it's you raising the age limit that causes it to be necessary. Are some healthy- sure. But their mind and body hasn't left them in such totality as aging will do to us all.

And yeah- that's me- looking for a handout.

Pointing out how baby boomers are the first generation in 200 years that will not leave the country better off than they received it, or the first generation of pilots in at least 80 years that will not leave the profession better than they found it is not asking for or needing a handout. I'm just pointing out what a mess your generation has been.

 

[waveflyer]

But I do know this- the DALPA TA is more concerning for the health of our profession than endlessly arguing with yip and bird.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Wave-
Where do I begin when so much of your post needs correction?

1. In the past, Age 60 was a much closer approximation to the average life expectancy. As life expectancy went up, the retirement age was raised. Unless you feel there is some conspiracy that ties increased longevity to your personal screwing over, then you must admit that this was a reasonable adaptation to reality.

2. In the past ALPA fought the retirement age. I'll clue you into something you might not be aware of: The legendary wages of the so-called Golden Age of the Airline Pilot were not a result of anything more than CAB-regulated airlines paying for labor peace so that they could expand market share. When airlines are growing, who cares about retirement age as it relates to upward movement. When things stagnate (as they did in the 80's) the long-suffering junior pilots pushed to keep Age 60 intact. Yes, they trotted out the tired tirade of safety and senility, but it was just as transparent then as it is when you do it today.

Blaming Baby Boomers for society's ills is somewhat misguided. Yes they developed unsustainable social programs that are crippling our recovery. However through innovation they increased worker productivity manyfold and without that productivity we would be even more like Greece than we are, Ancient or Modern.

But perhaps the worst blame you can lay on Boomers (and don't say you don't get a charge out of doing just that) is that they plunked a generation of children down in front of Sesame Street to raise them (because their own parents were such lousy, guilt-ridden role models) and Big Bird helped them develop a egalitarian worldview that lowers the bar of expectation so low that they are the laughingstock of the world. So, ill-equipped to really succeed at much, they go through life looking for a social program that will bail them out of the bad decisions they would prefer to blame on evil banks. So, tanked up on cynicism and partisanism and woefully lacking a true understanding of history, they decide that the ballot box is really just another roulette wheel of fortune and they shrug their shoulders when it lands on their prototype - Barack Obama.

Yeah, blame the Boomers AND their kids!

 

[flyboyike]

Wave-
Where do I begin when so much of your post needs correction?

1. In the past, Age 60 was a much closer approximation to the average life expectancy. As life expectancy went up, the retirement age was raised. Unless you feel there is some conspiracy that ties increased longevity to your personal screwing over, then you must admit that this was a reasonable adaptation to reality.

Again, why can't it be both? It's a reasonable adaptation to reality (although why do these longer-living people HAVE to be airline pilots (and only Captains, of course) until they drop is not entirely clear to me) AND it can be a hosejob, which this was and still is which you also must admit.

 

[pilotyip]

Again, why can't it be both? It's a reasonable adaptation to reality (although why do these longer-living people HAVE to be airline pilots (and only Captains, of course) until they drop is not entirely clear to me) AND it can be a hosejob, which this was and still is which you also must admit.

pure "Get out of my seat" The reality is that age 65 is the law, then again this is FI where dealing in reality is not normally pursued. Just pilot fantsay, world of the way it used to be, that it is someone else's fault, that I am not greeedy but everyone else is. All those link of fantasies.

 

[waveflyer]

Never mind

 

[Smarta$$]

Wave-
Where do I begin when so much of your post needs correction?

1. In the past, Age 60 was a much closer approximation to the average life expectancy. As life expectancy went up, the retirement age was raised. Unless you feel there is some conspiracy that ties increased longevity to your personal screwing over, then you must admit that this was a reasonable adaptation to reality.

2. In the past ALPA fought the retirement age. I'll clue you into something you might not be aware of: The legendary wages of the so-called Golden Age of the Airline Pilot were not a result of anything more than CAB-regulated airlines paying for labor peace so that they could expand market share. When airlines are growing, who cares about retirement age as it relates to upward movement. When things stagnate (as they did in the 80's) the long-suffering junior pilots pushed to keep Age 60 intact. Yes, they trotted out the tired tirade of safety and senility, but it was just as transparent then as it is when you do it today.

Blaming Baby Boomers for society's ills is somewhat misguided. Yes they developed unsustainable social programs that are crippling our recovery. However through innovation they increased worker productivity manyfold and without that productivity we would be even more like Greece than we are, Ancient or Modern.

But perhaps the worst blame you can lay on Boomers (and don't say you don't get a charge out of doing just that) is that they plunked a generation of children down in front of Sesame Street to raise them (because their own parents were such lousy, guilt-ridden role models) and Big Bird helped them develop a egalitarian worldview that lowers the bar of expectation so low that they are the laughingstock of the world. So, ill-equipped to really succeed at much, they go through life looking for a social program that will bail them out of the bad decisions they would prefer to blame on evil banks. So, tanked up on cynicism and partisanism and woefully lacking a true understanding of history, they decide that the ballot box is really just another roulette wheel of fortune and they shrug their shoulders when it lands on their prototype - Barack Obama.


Yeah, blame the Boomers AND their kids!

Wow.... how delusional. Don't blame the boomers that have been running the country and our corporations for the last 20 years as the country fell apart. It must be the kids and Obama... if you guys had half a brain at all, you would see this place has been crumbling more than a decade.

 

[cldsfr79]

pure "Get out of my seat" The reality is that age 65 is the law, then again this is FI where dealing in reality is not normally pursued. Just pilot fantsay, world of the way it used to be, that it is someone else's fault, that I am not greeedy but everyone else is. All those link of fantasies.

Part of the debate is "get out of my seat", I will admit that.

Generations of pilots have gotten out of "your seat" so it's time for retires to do the same.

The game of life is over. They had their run. Thank u for playing.

 

[Mamma]

pure "Get out of my seat" The reality is that age 65 is the law, then again this is FI where dealing in reality is not normally pursued. Just pilot fantsay, world of the way it used to be, that it is someone else's fault, that I am not greeedy but everyone else is. All those link of fantasies.

You bet it's "get out of my seat!" Just about every captain made captain because someone turned 60 and "got out of their seat." Now, that guys like you and Bird "have theirs" you don't want to repay the honor. You want to reap the benefits of sitting on top out of pure greed and plum lifestyle......all of which came from someone getting out of your seat. The system was set up for us to get out at 60. Pay, retirement and career expectations were all created for that eventuality. Now, those that have had to endure this flagrant abuse for 5 years will probably have to work longer to achieve what could have been attained at 60. Enjoy retirement for 5-10 years then be attached to a doctor, medicine or just die. Thanks. I would bet if you two were FOs you would be singing a different tune.

I don't mind age 65 so much because many guys needed to go longer because of what happened to the profession. That being said, it should have been implemented in increments taking into account career progression for the rest. This was a huge, unfair windfall that benefited the most well-off of our profession while harming the rest. APAAD had no honor.

 

[flyboyike]

pure "Get out of my seat" The reality is that age 65 is the law, then again this is FI where dealing in reality is not normally pursued. Just pilot fantsay, world of the way it used to be, that it is someone else's fault, that I am not greeedy but everyone else is. All those link of fantasies.

I know full well it's the law, yip, what I can't get out of you and your kind is just the admission that this was a hosejob. I'll gladly admit my greed the second you and your kind admit yours. It seems, though, you consider your greed OK, but mine somehow not OK.

 

[flyboyike]

You bet it's "get out of my seat!" Just about every captain made captain because someone turned 60 and "got out of their seat." Now, that guys like you and Bird "have theirs" you don't want to repay the honor. You want to reap the benefits of sitting on top out of pure greed and plum lifestyle......all of which came from someone getting out of your seat.

It was OK for them, they're entitled, we're not.

 

[kwick]

Again, why can't it be both? It's a reasonable adaptation to reality (although why do these longer-living people HAVE to be airline pilots (and only Captains, of course) until they drop is not entirely clear to me) AND it can be a hosejob, which this was and still is which you also must admit.

Make sure you bring this attitude up at your major airline interviews.

I'm sure they will be amused.

Better yet, stay at the regionals, you can fly with younger pilots.

Nobody wants to hire a "Debbie Downer" with a bad attitude.

 

[pilotyip]

I know full well it's the law, yip, what I can't get out of you and your kind is just the admission that this was a hosejob. I'll gladly admit my greed the second you and your kind admit yours. It seems, though, you consider your greed OK, but mine somehow not OK.

My greed? I was kicked out of the 121 cockpit in Sept 2003 when I turned 60. or is my greed that I still fly as a DA-20 Captain in 135?

It was OK for them, they're entitled, we're not.

This is funny this could easily be the trademark of the over 60 pilots. Over 60 pilot talking "Is it OK for those youngsters to want my seat, they think that are entitled to it? But it is not OK for me to feel entitled to it.":laugh:

 

[madjack]

when is age 67 going to happen?

 

[flyboyike]

Make sure you bring this attitude up at your major airline interviews.

I'd love to 'cept if the gummers never leave, I'll never get the chance.