Age 65 will cause FURLOUGHS and DOWNGRADES

[Andy]

Senior ALPA won't talk about it because they just got done serving their own needs with 65. And they are on standby to do no less than the same thing on Open Skies I'm afraid.

senior alpo will sell out the majority faster than a Filipino hooker can drop to her knees when the Navy's in port.
alpo won't even be a speed bump for the next round of Open Skies. Don't worry, there'll be a push poll to 'justify' their actions.

 

[seawings]

I've probably missed something in this tread, however, it would seem to me (corporate pilot, never airline) that the age 65 rule will benefit everyone...especially the younger pilots as they look toward the years available to fly. In other words what goes around comes around.

 

[Flopgut]

I've probably missed something in this tread, however, it would seem to me (corporate pilot, never airline) that the age 65 rule will benefit everyone...especially the younger pilots as they look toward the years available to fly. In other words what goes around comes around.

You're not wrong. The problem was the manner in which it changed.

 

[Flopgut]

We're all professionals. And most of us are intelligent. It's 4th and long...Somebody has to make a play!! Cheerleading AIN'T going to do it!! I say we go after the RLA. I think it's the right answer to Open Skies.

 

[jke406]

I've probably missed something in this tread, however, it would seem to me (corporate pilot, never airline) that the age 65 rule will benefit everyone...especially the younger pilots as they look toward the years available to fly. In other words what goes around comes around.

no...now we HAVE to fly until 65 to make up for wages lost when the gummers stayed in their seats, slowing upgrades and thus, earnings.

Most guys I know would rather go fishin' at age 60.

it was a money grab by the old timers. ALPA sold out the majority of its members' wishes. plenty of threads on this to get you up to date if you're interested.

 

[Andy]

I've probably missed something in this tread, however, it would seem to me (corporate pilot, never airline) that the age 65 rule will benefit everyone...especially the younger pilots as they look toward the years available to fly. In other words what goes around comes around.

I'll make it real simple for you. Supply and demand curve.
Absent any external factors, the change from age 60 to 65 results in a shift of the supply curve to the right due to an increase in the supply of pilots. This results in more pilots being employed, although less than the total increase of pilots from the shift in the curve, at lower wages.
That's lower wages regardless of seat position for your entire career. If you're under the age of 50, you will likely never recover those lost wages, even with working an additional 5 years. So you work longer for less money.
There is a group of winners within the pilot group, but that's limited to those over 55 or so. The 50-55 crowd breaks even. Below 50, you end up losing money over the course of your career.
The big winners are your employers since they are going to extract the same amount of labor for a lower price from their pilots.

 

[Flopgut]

The RLA is outdated and is being used as a means to avoid the FLSA and promote forced labor. There is no more need based on essential air service being nearly gone. So, get rid of the RLA and allow airline workers the rules under NLRB and we'll all be able to strike as necessary in basically the same way they do in EU countries. I think we'll have the necessary job protections we deserve in less than 48 hrs of our first industry wide strike. OR, (and this is what I would prefer we get) keep the RLA and give us back some of the protections it is intended to afford workers! Specifically, retirement and unemployment benefits.

Real simple. They want to oppress us further with Open Skies, we'll outflank them and work toward the the proper benefits we deserve. The exact benefits the RLA was meant to deliver.

 

[kwick]

The Big Winners are the American public. With the current projected pilot shortage, the American public will not sit by and watch some Panzy Andy's with two years of airline experience jump into Captain seats, which they are under-qualified for, and splatter aircraft all over the place. Like the last time the military tried to replace experienced airline pilots with wanabee's.

 

[timmay]

Real simple. They want to oppress us further with Open Skies, we'll outflank them and work toward the the proper benefits we deserve. The exact benefits the RLA was meant to deliver.

Exactly, when you negotiate you need to be doing it from a position of power, otherwise ALPA will never be successful.

 

[Flopgut]

Chrysler was bailed out by the govt and the UAW didn't have to walk the plank. The ATSB was tragically misused against airline labor. It's time to assert ourselves. We're not asking for a handout! To insist on admending the RLA to benefit airline workers is hardly outrageous.

 

[Freight Dog]

The Big Winners are the American public. With the current projected pilot shortage, the American public will not sit by and watch some Panzy Andy's with two years of airline experience jump into Captain seats, which they are under-qualified for, and splatter aircraft all over the place. Like the last time the military tried to replace experienced airline pilots with wanabee's.

Really? So what you're telling me someone who's flown in the regionals for say 5-6 years, and then sat right seat at a major for another 5-6 years is a "Panzy Andy" and cannot be trusted to captain a Boeing?

Wow, are you full of yourself or what.....

 

[BLing]

There are plenty of Euro's that will work here for less flying jets just so they can live here, green card, etc...

I did a contract in Africa where we had a 61 year old French CA. He wasnt there for the $10000/month plus a nice apartment. He was only there to screw black chicks! He came loaded up with condoms, Cialis and lies to his wife back home that they needed the money for retirement!

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Cause and Effect.

Age 65 caused the profession to be diminished by lower retirement benefits, lowering or keeping lower starting wages, causing furloughes or reduced hiring, preventing upward movement within a company, and soon to be increasing medical standards.

 

[Andy]

Really? So what you're telling me someone who's flown in the regionals for say 5-6 years, and then sat right seat at a major for another 5-6 years is a "Panzy Andy" and cannot be trusted to captain a Boeing?

Wow, are you full of yourself or what.....

The senile fart was firing a shot across my bow.

He seems to think that someone who's flown an aircraft in the military for 10+ years prior to flying part 121 is not capable of replacing someone who is unable to retire due to his poor financial planning. He assumes that because it took him quite a while to learn how to command an aircraft, all pilots are as incapable of advancement as him.

 

[Freight Dog]

What's even worse Andy, is that you can clearly see the decline in older guys' cognitive and mental abilities. It's unfortunate, dangerous even that they refuse to accept it

 

[Quimby]

....there are Indian ATR operators who are begging to hire American pilots.....and here is the kicker....They pay MORE than US ALPA carriers.....



....but you have to live in India.

no thanks.

 

[Whataburger]

I hear the slurpees are good there.

 

[Thunderchief]

Do either of you two ever work? You guys are always on! Slackers!

Still recovering from my green beer...

TC

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The RLA is outdated and is being used as a means to avoid the FLSA and promote forced labor. There is no more need based on essential air service being nearly gone. So, get rid of the RLA and allow airline workers the rules under NLRB and we'll all be able to strike as necessary in basically the same way they do in EU countries. I think we'll have the necessary job protections we deserve in less than 48 hrs of our first industry wide strike. OR, (and this is what I would prefer we get) keep the RLA and give us back some of the protections it is intended to afford workers! Specifically, retirement and unemployment benefits.

Real simple. They want to oppress us further with Open Skies, we'll outflank them and work toward the the proper benefits we deserve. The exact benefits the RLA was meant to deliver.

HOW? I'd like to hear HOW you think this shall be done.

Exactly, when you negotiate you need to be doing it from a position of power, otherwise ALPA will never be successful.

Agreed. HOW. Got a game plan that is workable?

Chrysler was bailed out by the govt and the UAW didn't have to walk the plank. The ATSB was tragically misused against airline labor. It's time to assert ourselves. We're not asking for a handout! To insist on admending the RLA to benefit airline workers is hardly outrageous.

Ammend the RLA? Sounds good. HOW? On a side note... would the fact that the UAW and auto industry is not subject ot the RLA have any bearing here?

 

[Flopgut]

HOW? I'd like to hear HOW you think this shall be done.



Agreed. HOW. Got a game plan that is workable?



Ammend the RLA? Sounds good. HOW? On a side note... would the fact that the UAW and auto industry is not subject ot the RLA have any bearing here?

Begin with an article in the magazine explaining the RLA. Make the arguement: should it stay inplace or go away? Detail the disparity between actual rail workers and us. Example: rail workers have the RRB, airline workers got the shaft from the ATSB and PBGC.

Talking points include: Social Security, job protections, unemployment, retirement and retirement age.

After detailing the RLA in the magazine, enpanel a committee to move the issue forward. Do so now so we can pick the best politcal candidates who share the vision. Then start putting ads in papers.

ALPA [Prater] needs to shelve the Crewpass stuff and get busy with something that will help us all. This does it!

(btw, this is too quick a responce, but I'm flying...I'll get back to you Rez.)