Rez: You're a legitimate phenomenon. How can so much stupid exist in one person??
Stick to the debate. Personal comments only devalue your postion.
Look: Globalization threat to our jobs numero uno is health care.
Agreed.... healthcare is a big cost. Let's continue on...
Right now, that is the main reason US pilots would lose flying. The astronomical cost paid by our employers provides an opportunity. If we leverage our own answer to high cost health care with job protections, I'll bet we win!!
You bet? Sounds like you aren't completely sure...
Pattern the UAW and hustle up ALPA only health care. Do it right, and we've got enough money on a pretty select class of plan participants there will be plenty of options.
Ok... I understand you are saying ALPA should/could manage our healthcare..... or do you mean like the life and disability insurance that ALPA provides, managed by another company? For example life insurance via New York Life....
Will that control the cost? In addition, my current employer is much larger than 60,000 pilots. My health cost might go up if I switch to a ALPA [provided] healtcare plan.
I don't know how much of the world you've traveled (it sure doesn't sound like much) but, if you take health care out of the equation, it's almost leveled. Seriously, it's a lot worse here in the US than you think.
I haven't been to antarctica.....
BTW, I'm fairly clear about who the "theys" are and the senior contingent proclivities. Get your head out of your butt and pay attention. Stop thinking you're Ghandi and try just acting like you've at least finished 3rd grade. You're thesis of cheerleading us all to better is a fairy tale. You've got no real answers!! You're an embarrassment!!
Maybe you've missed my point. Ghandi or MLKjr are examples because, their effectiveness was in numbers... They got things done by having unity amongts the masses.
It doesn't matter what we want to do... your healthcare idea... which has merit, or whatever...
we are not going to do it with a divided house...
So until we ALL get unified.... we cavatate.
1) The thread topic is age 65, not cabotage.
Agreed, but age 60 is over with... that is a (less than) five year shift. What I am talking about is the wholesale elimination of our jobs to cheap foreign labor..... forever....
2) Foreign carriers currently pay BETTER than the US. In many cases, MUCH BETTER. rez is suggesting that their wages will be lowered at a much faster rate than that of US pilots. I disagree; US pilots have proven time and again that we'll work for less money than anyone else, including inhabitants of third world countries.
Nope you are missing the point. The issue is availablity via wages. No one will want to work as a pilot in the US becuase the wages are so poor. We are already seeing that with the regionals.
We might see US pilots going over seas for the better jobs for a while. However, the staffing issue globally is attempting to be resovled, in part by the MPL. Foreign carriers want to hire thier own nationals. And when they can they will prefer to. Of all the western pilots, USA pilots are the least desirable. The Queens subjects usually go first... then the mainland Euros' then the Americans.
You've been told many, many times why you're worong. Multiple times on this thread alone. Tell me when you're going to comprehend what you've been told.
C'mon Andy... you want to whittle this down to..
Andy: You're wrong.
Rez: Am not...
Andy: Are to..
Rez Am not...
Andy Are to
Rez Am not.
Andy I SAID 'ARE TO' FIRST!
Andy, I prefer to debate a bit more intelligently...
BTW what's your class date in April?
The bottom line is that this thread is about the impact of age 65 - if you are unable to comprehend something as simple as thread topics, how can you be expected to comprehend more complex issues?
Nice diversionary thread hijacking; standard alpo chihauha tactic. Yip a bit louder. Maybe prater'll throw you a doggie biscuit. Now stop crapping on the carpet.
I guess you don't want to (or can't) debate intelligently...
I'll tell you what Rez does a good job of and why I engage him. For those of us who've kept our powder dry and have waited to get too involved with ALPA in order to keep a jump to mgt viable, he makes a great case for staying OUT of ALPA!! Who wouldn't want to bargain against this guy??? He
thinks he's Ghandi for crying out loud!! He
thinks he understands globalization!! He's a HACK!!
So you are going to let me keep you from being involved in your career? Because I disagree with you? It is your career.
The Ghandi/MLKjr example was made to show that we can be effective.... effectiveness through the membership is not an untried or experimental action.
Age 65 did not change because mgts wanted it to. And globalization won't hurt us unless we don't act.
Agreed! I guess we disagree in the HOW.
To the point: Foriegn control would pit our widebody crews against that of the other country (right now, that foriegn country is going to be EU) If health care were removed from the equation the widebodies would be headed here! NOT there!
Disagree. The EU wants access to the US market. The recent negotiated US/EU open skies agreement allows for EU carriers to fly from any point in the EU to US destinations. THis begins March 30. two weeks from now.
http://www.eurunion.org/News/press/2007/2007044.htm
The first ever EU-US aviation agreement, which will be signed today in Washington at the EU-US Transatlantic Summit, was initialed on March 2 in Brussels. It was welcomed by the European Parliament on March 14 and approved unanimously by the twenty-seven Transport Ministers on March 22. It will enter into force on March 30, 2008.
Among the benefits, the Agreement is predicted to bring billions of euros in economic benefits, millions of additional passengers and up to new 80,000 jobs over a five-year period.
The ultimate objective of the European Union is to create an Open Aviation Area: a single air transport market between the EU and the US in which investment can flow freely and in which European and US airlines can provide air services without any restriction, including access to the domestic markets of both parties. The EU negotiating mandate foresaw the possibility of a staged approach, provided that mechanisms are in place to ensure progression to subsequent stages. The agreement signed today contains a strong mechanism for the phase-two agreement within a strictly defined timescale and a list of priority items. The second-stage negotiations will start no later than May 30, 2008.
The next (second) stage of negotiations actually starts this month too... March 30.
Not sure how our healthcare cost will stop the EU carriers from wanting a bigger piece of the US market. Can you provide follow up?
Shall we be working to ensure protections thru second stage US/EU open skies protections... or our own healthcare plans? No doubt healthcare is important....
Of course, the EU pilot group is going to have the sort of job protections that will more likely preclude that. ALPA is NOT working toward smart job protections. ALPA, either does not know how, OR, senior ALPA doesn't care to try.
Jobs protections will come codified in US law, ICAO code and the US/EU agreements. That is where we should be focusing our efforts..... not sure about healthcare.
My feeling is, senior ALPA wants to keep the junior members futures' provisional so it's easier to stab them in the back [65]. It's been a constant theme in ALPA to always be able to eat their own.
Perhaps.... however you best be sure that your "feeling" is correct. Otherwise you are wasting valuable energy and resources
on internal fighting instead of US law, ICAO code and US/EU agreements.
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2007:134:0004:0041:EN:PDF
