Age 65 will cause FURLOUGHS and DOWNGRADES

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Bravo for being indifferent to age 60.

as a younger pilot I am effected by it...

But if you really understood the problem you'd realize that to go into globalization you'd want your union firing on all cylinders. It's NOT!

No Shat. But that doesn't mean globalization isn't going to effect us.

If it was, age 65 would not have passed in the way it did. You can't claim to know anything about union process and have any faith in ALPA to handle other issues.

Is this about age 60 or union effectiveness?

If a few extra dollars were dangled before Prater right now to sign off on cabotage, he WOULD! Pure and simple.

Not sure if that is really true.... but it doesn't matter, cause that is what you and too many believe!!

Your perception is your reality and Praters problem... well in actuality... its all of our problems...

Rez: I've been in three unions and when I hear you talk it scares the crap out of me; I can't believe I share an affiliation with someone so stupid acting!

Your immature comments suggest you are younger than I.

We actually agree more than not... it appears you are too angry to think logically. Are you a USAPA supporter?

Age 60 is over. It is yesterday! The more you talk about the past the more we'll get hammered by the future.

Our effectiveness is our number one problem. We can't handle any of the issues while we are dysfunctional.

A problem is .... guys are still hung up on Age 60. Its over. But while you are still angry about the past we are not fixing our effectiveness issues to deal with the next problem.

And when cabatoge, open skies or foreign control takes another hit out of careers... are you going to realize what is going on?

 

[elag777]

luckytohaveajob.... don't forget to include ICAO in your alphabet blame game.... oh... and you're a victim.... feel better?

Can you talk about ICAO's role in all of this...

Maybe you can get revs. Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and our own beloved Joe Merchant to help with victim status and living in the past....


Oh yeah.... and ALPA sucks!!

I expected a more mature post from you Rez?:erm:

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My you are an ignorant young man.

Then school me tough guy....

 

[TAZ MAN]

Then school me tough guy....

School you? How about the quote I responded to wasn't from you. Or was it? Hmmmmm

You are wound way too tight.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

School you? How about the quote I responded to wasn't from you. Or was it? Hmmmmm

You are wound way too tight.

Agreed.... logging off now....

 

[Mach 80]

So what. It passed and that's it. Why do some want to continue to cry about it? How will that change anything?

 

[2ndGenPSA]

Pilots seem to love to vote Republican. Lower taxes myth I guess??
Well, they can be thanked for age 65. Your congress and your president are responsible.
They can be thanked for union busting. Ex-presidents started it (PATCO), and it continues.
Labor is so far down the road of beat-down discrimination, there is no reversing it.
You think ALPA is responsible for age 65? You think if they would have continued their fight against it, that Florida congressman would have shelved his proposal? You think that congress and the president would have LISTENED to ALPA???
Crazy!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Pilots seem to love to vote Republican. Lower taxes myth I guess??
Well, they can be thanked for age 65. Your congress and your president are responsible.
They can be thanked for union busting. Ex-presidents started it (PATCO), and it continues.
Labor is so far down the road of beat-down discrimination, there is no reversing it.
You think ALPA is responsible for age 65? You think if they would have continued their fight against it, that Florida congressman would have shelved his proposal? You think that congress and the president would have LISTENED to ALPA???
Crazy!

Good SA. the emotional crowd like luckytohaveajob won't have it though.... they just want to me mad!!

 

[Flopgut]

Rez: you have no SA. I don't support USAPA.

What planet are you from? Seriously? It sounds like you think we should champion the needs Chinese and South American pilots as an answer to globalization. Is that right? We need to take care of pilot jobs here, no where else. And we will accomplish that by leveling the playing field with an answer to health care and shoring up our retirement needs. This could be done if ALPA would pattern what the UAW is doing (health care) and if we could achieve a railroad like retirement plan. But, ALPA won't do that. When I contact them I have to talk to someone like you who can pretty well describe the problem, but has NO answers! NONE! You think pragmatism is the answer, ALPA thinks it's the answer, you're both wrong. Truth: Retirement age doesn't really matter in other ICAO countries. It never did, on either side of the equation. And it shouldn't matter here, but the senior A-holes made it matter. They took it half way and engineered a band-aid on medical standards just to help themselves. What you don't realize is that ALPA National thinks you and I are young and spoiled and they are happy we want to make sweeping changes and help the whole world. It keeps us busy while they take for themselves. Now the difference between me and you? YOU are going to end up just like them! You'll be delighted to lick the boot kicking the shat out of you! Cause you've got NO answers! NONE! I defy you to come up with a working plan for raising the standard of living for Chinese pilots like I suspect you think should be done!! You want to do that?? Then make our own working reality better... That's how you'll help everyone.

 

[tomgoodman]

Risks of retiring at 60

Age 65 won't affect the companies that still have an A plan. These pilots will still retire at 60 OR 30 years of service.

If they can collect most of their pension as a lump sum and/or are sure that their annuity checks won't be slashed after they retire -- then yes, they would be smart to go at 60. Otherwise, they may feel they had better earn as much as they can for as long as they can. They have seen what happened at other airlines.

 

[Freight Dog]

I'm speechless, Rez. Just speechless.... You really are blind.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez: you have no SA. I don't support USAPA.

Good. If USAPA is successful in thier efforts it will take even longer for you and I to protect our careers. That is the real danger of USAPA. Their divisiveness will hurt everyone...including themselves...

What planet are you from? Seriously? It sounds like you think we should champion the needs Chinese and South American pilots as an answer to globalization. Is that right?

Acutally it is. For if we do not help the Chinese and SA pilots and all others with a lower standard, then thier standard will be the world standard, not ours.

It is not a difficult concept. That is the challenge of globalization.... Not just for pilots but for workers worldwide. You know how the chinese live in factory dormitories... Do you think those who control the distibution of wealth want to pay workers chinese or American wages?

In fact where is all the work going? Is it staying here in America or going to China? Why? cause they build better and safer toys?

We need to take care of pilot jobs here, no where else.

Wrong... and I will tell you why.. keep reading..

And we will accomplish that by leveling the playing field with an answer to health care and shoring up our retirement needs.

All the while, the Chinese, South Americans, etc.. will offer pilot services cheaper than you and I. If you forget and don't care about the Chinese and South Americans, they why should they care about you when they undercut you.

What is to stop powerful lobbyist for CorpAmerica to say to the gov't.. we can't get pilots in the US. We have to hire overseas... and you the US Gov't are going to issue residents permits and work permits for Chinese and South Americans.. other wise the US airline industry shuts down. You think the gov't is going to listen to ALPA with its 14% member particaption in its PAC?

Gee millions of dollars via CorpAmerica vs. 100,000 of dollars via ALPA. Money talks bullshat walks...

This could be done if ALPA would pattern what the UAW is doing (health care) and if we could achieve a railroad like retirement plan. But, ALPA won't do that.

I'll put the burden on you. tell me... why won't ALPA do that... and why should they???

When I contact them I have to talk to someone like you who can pretty well describe the problem, but has NO answers! NONE!

So you think ALPA should pattern after another industry. How do you know that you are right? I am not saying you are wrong. But what are your ideas? What are the details?

You think pragmatism is the answer, ALPA thinks it's the answer, you're both wrong. Truth: Retirement age doesn't really matter in other ICAO countries. It never did, on either side of the equation. And it shouldn't matter here, but the senior A-holes made it matter.

Ok... now ...is it the ALPA or the senior guys? You are confusing me... help me understand.

They took it half way and engineered a band-aid on medical standards just to help themselves.

Who is "they"? ALPA or the senior guys?

What you don't realize is that ALPA National thinks you and I are young and spoiled and they are happy we want to make sweeping changes and help the whole world.


It keeps us busy while they take for themselves. Now the difference between me and you? YOU are going to end up just like them!

Sorry.. it is not sweeping changes and helping the whole world. It is fundamental to our survival.

You seem to be focused on YOU. And you do this by creating a them vs. me ideal in your mind. It will be our demise and it is elementry to us "being our own worse enemy"

You want to be understood, yet you are unwilling to understand...

When ALPA doesn act and get results that you think should be gotten, suddenly its ALPA's fault. It has nothing to do with reality, the globalization, etc... It is just easier for you to blame ALPA. Perhaps its because you don't pay dues to reality. Or you don't have a phone number to Globalization. Maybe if you did you could call them...

You'll be delighted to lick the boot kicking the shat out of you!

You are younger than me, with your immature name calling.

Cause you've got NO answers! NONE!

Wrong. I do have answers. It's called education, particaption, unity, patience, etc... This isn't difficult, it has been done before: MLKjr and Ghandi. Why is it no one wants to do this???

The wrong answers are guys like you that want to fight within. You become one issue orientated. You can't disagree on one issue then work together on another issue.

I defy you to come up with a working plan for raising the standard of living for Chinese pilots like I suspect you think should be done!!

How about the effort to help the chinese with the implemenation with RVSM in thier airspace?

You want to do that?? Then make our own working reality better... That's how you'll help everyone.

We make our own working reality better by helping others make thiers better... if we don't then they will drag us down....


Your reply?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm speechless, Rez. Just speechless.... You really are blind.

Then reply to my post above...

 

[timmay]

Maybe you didn't read my post..... I said in 10 years.



Compared to whom? The Euro's? What about the SA and Africans? Chinese? How much does a pilot in Cuba make?

These pilots are the threat to our profession in NA in the next ten years.

Thats the funniest thing I think I've ever heard. Africans and Cubans are going to be taking all the flying jobs. If that is ALPA's big concern for the next 10 years I'm glad they are not getting 2% from me anymore.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Thats the funniest thing I think I've ever heard. Africans and Cubans are going to be taking all the flying jobs. If that is ALPA's big concern for the next 10 years I'm glad they are not getting 2% from me anymore.

When commercial marine freighters cross the Atlantic and Pacific are American saliors and Officers acting as crew?

Being crew on an American transoceanic merchant ship was a common and well paid career. Esecially as an officer, like a Capt.

How many are there now? Ships and crew?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Thats the funniest thing I think I've ever heard. Africans and Cubans are going to be taking all the flying jobs. If that is ALPA's big concern for the next 10 years I'm glad they are not getting 2% from me anymore.

It's the ALPA cheerleaders deflecting the issue away from their failures....."Let's create a new problem to get the pilot's minds off of our previous and current failures"......

Besides if they were serious about it they would have opposed the MPL......rather than trying to "work with it".......

 

[JoeMerchant]

When commercial marine freighters cross the Atlantic and Pacific are American saliors and Officers acting as crew?

Being crew on an American transoceanic merchant ship was a common and well paid career. Esecially as an officer, like a Capt.

How many are there now? Ships and crew?

.....actually this is more a result of shipping lines not home porting ships here due to our excessive regulation and tax burdens.....The law of unintended consequences strikes again....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

.....actually this is more a result of shipping lines not home porting ships here due to our excessive regulation and tax burdens.....The law of unintended consequences strikes again....

and that won't happen to us....


cheap foreign pilots flying most if not all widebodies transoceanic into the US on MPLs....

all thats left is narrow body flying domestically for US pilots...

 

[JoeMerchant]

and that won't happen to us....


cheap foreign pilots flying most if not all widebodies transoceanic into the US on MPLs....

all thats left is narrow body flying domestically for US pilots...

....they are separate issues....

....It is an issue of overregulation and taxes.....We can't control what happens outside of our borders....That is why ships fly flags of convenience...to get around taxes and regulation...Maybe we should lower the tax and regulatory burdain on shipping lines to attract more home ports here.....

The labor issue is a different issue and is valid whether or not I am worried about being replaced by a pilot from India or by an ALPA member who attended the Mesa Pilot Development program.....The later is far more likely at this point...When we solve that problem then we can talk about what might happen later.......

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

....they are separate issues....

Does it matter if they yield the same results?

....It is an issue of overregulation and taxes.....We can't control what happens outside of our borders....That is why ships fly flags of convenience...to get around taxes and regulation...

And our case this is why companies will go to foreign cheap labor. The same reason Levis' jeans and Masterlock went overseas.

Maybe we should lower the tax and regulatory burdain on shipping lines to attract more home ports here.....

Gee Joe... how do we do that?

The labor issue is a different issue and is valid whether or not I am worried about being replaced by a pilot from India or by an ALPA member who attended the Mesa Pilot Development program.....The later is far more likely at this point...When we solve that problem then we can talk about what might happen later.......

That is like defering the cargo fire to address the medical emergency....