Age 65 right around corner... 15 year upgrades at SWA!!!

[mdf]

ONE LAST thing to for SWA guys remeber SWAPA was for the age 65...

At least part of SWAPA was. I think the last vote was something like 55-45.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
I agree that a lot of the ALPA rhetoric is overdone, but didn't a majority of the minority also say that ALPA should resist the change in retirement age????

Yes... ALPA should resist the change. However another question was.. if ALPA cannot stop the change, should ALPA work with the changes or fight it steadfast? (my words). (which way is most influential and effective? Having a seat at the table of change or not being invited to the meeting of change?)

Recall ALPA, APA, SWAPA are unions. They are not lawmakers. They can only influence the lawmakers.

Also, why does ALPA propose nothing about mitigating the windfall to the pilots who will turn 60 next year, ie phasing in the rules change??? Lastly, why does a "Blue Ribbon Panel" on the retirement age change consist of like 9 captains and one FO. I'm pretty sure the makeup of ALPA is closer to 50/50. I think we all know the reason, and it is not going to be easy to convince the FO ALPA membership that they were not just bent over and handed a ******************** sandwich on which they will dine the remainder of their careers.
Luv

fair enough... but I don't think any member has much to say if they didn't particapte:

I am willing to bet that the average ALPA member did not:

1. particapte in the Age 60 survey. The first and SECOND one.

2. participate in the LEC elections which in turn sent the delegates to the BOD who elected Prater. Recall Duane W. was pro age 60 and he had the CapHill contacts. If anyone could have kept age 60 it was DW. But everyone was too pissed and had to have change. They had to kick out DW.

3. Participate in US Congressional elections. Yet these congressmen are drafting the Age law and voting on it.


So the age 60 thing is supposed to go "the way the membership" wants it but they don't want to particapte.

Let me put it this way. You don't write a Xmas wish list, and on Xmas morn you don't get what you want, and it's Santa's fault.... get real.

But the whiney retort is big deal.... non particaption is the status quo.... who cares!!

 

[V-STALL]

:bawling: I don't want to work past 55- let alone another 10 years!

 

[sleeves]

The younger pilots just got their butts handed to them. This is what happens when one only cries on some message board and pays dues. The older group bought their own lobbyist, created groups for their cause, had a very organized approach to effect their change.

If you do not want this kind of stuff happing in the future then get involved. Don't call your rep, become one. Sending your congressmen a letter does almost nothing. You have to have an organized approach. Most cannot give up the time, it would eat into their flightinfo surfing.

 

[filejw]

No chance of being forced to work over 60 unless the IRS changes some pension rules, like forcing penalties on what may now be called early retirement(60).

 

[FlyByNight1]

talked to a senators office this morning. They said this bill is in three places right now, one of which is a stand alone bill as you know- this is to assure passage. According to this senators office, the bill has full support in the senate and will pass. However, they said it will probably not be until mid January some time.

 

[tomgoodman]

Precedents?

No chance of being forced to work over 60 unless the IRS changes some pension rules, like forcing penalties on what may now be called early retirement(60).

That's a real possibility. According to PBGC, Social Security, and Medicare rules, the Feds already consider age 60 to be an early retirement.

 

[PinnacleDude]

My Dad used to call ALPA "The Captains union". Nothing has changed since the old days, except Prater and the top echelon will get to enjoy their exorbitant and outrageous ALPA salaries for another 5 years.

The real problem is that they are not exorbitant or outrageous salaries. When a SWA 737 Captain makes more than Major Airline Widebody Captains, something is seriously wrong. SWA 73 Captains should probably make more, but the pay at the major airlines is outrageously low.

Prater has allowed this to become a tremendous distraction from fixing the above.

 

[nimtz]

ONE LAST thing to for SWA guys remeber SWAPA was for the age 65...

But they had all those wondrous years of slapping Herb on the back and agreeing they didn't need a retirement package like the guys at American.

 

[SpoolDaddy]

Rez, Luv, Flopgut,

All great replies, and Rez, your consistent stance that democracy is not a spectator sport is valid, but from where I sit I really have seen a massive increase in participation in the last 18 months due to the age issue. Unfortunately, ALPA has felt more like a republic than a democracy of late.

Here are a couple of comebacks I have for ALPA:

1. If pilots are allowed to work to 65 and a major reason for this as stated by Capt Prater is due to the post-911 economic meltdown... and we ALPA pilots are ALL about taking care of our brothers.... then any former pilot under 65 who has lost a pension MUST be eligible to be retrained and brought back on the property OR (if this proposal would crush a seniority list, result in furlough, massive training cost, etc) 50% of all wages earned past age 60 go to the ALPA retirees lost-pension fund.

2. No ALPA member works past age 60 on a seniority list that has any furloughed members, unless those furloughees have "passed" on a recall.

3. Over age 60 pilots must transition to the right seat, just as current over-60 pilots must transition to an engineer position (where applicable). This maintains equitable career/seat progression and ensures that one crew-member will be under-60 as required. Most importantly, we keep all that super-safe experience in the cockpit (between naps, anyway) so that the rest of us can still manage to find the airfield, we couldn't have done it without them.

Wow, my Boston-sarcastic roots started showing,
anyway, some thoughts I promise to communicate to my ALPA rep., SD