Age 65 right around corner... 15 year upgrades at SWA!!!

[Filkster]

The legislation is not retroactive, and airlines would not be required to hire back pilots who retire before the measure goes into effect.___
The bill is H.R. 4343.

The RJ airlines can use the experience of these newly retired but ready to be hired top notch pilots. I say they give back and hire on to Mesa etc as new hire FO's.

All in favor post Aye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RF

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Aye!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

FDJ, the bill wouldn't have come forward as stand-alone legislation in the first place if ALPA's buddy Oberstar didn't bring it to the floor. This happened because Prater pushed it. It wasn't "apparent" that it was going to change anyway. This could have been delayed for years to come.

I am not saying that Prater pushed it or not... but how do you know?


ALPA also has a responsibility to ICAO and the int'l pilot community for the US to align themselves with the global pilots. There are many pilots that fly past 60. There are ALPA pilots that fly in North America over age 60, in and out of DCA, the nations capital for example...

 

[PCL_128]

I am not saying that Prater pushed it or not... but how do you know?

Because I'm not completely clueless and blind. Anyone can see what happened here. ALPA's biggest buddy on the Hill proposed stand alone legislation to change this regulation, and you expect me to believe that Prater had nothing to do with it? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test. Not to mention the fact that every time I've talked with Prater, all he can do is rant and rave about Age-60. It's an obsession with him, and it has been since before he even took office.

 

[vetrider]

I am not saying that Prater pushed it or not... but how do you know?

Prater pushed it. As an AWA pilot I've got a ringside seat to Prater doing it his way.

 

[av8instyle]

Call it what you like, anyone that is not a line holding captain is getting bent over and screwed...again...to the tune of 3/4 of a million bucks.

 

[Captain X]

I think we all need to vote for the recall of Prater, that stupid pr!ck.

Actually if I'm not mistaken your primary beef should be with your MEC Chairman unless you work for NWA or XJT.

Every MEC Chairman but those two voted in favor of supporting the change as they comprise the Executive Board.

The Executive Board set the direction. The President (Prater) carried out the direction of the Executive Board as he is tasked to do.

Technically, John Prater did his job. It is true, however, that he should have questioned the direction set by the Board since it was at odds with membership polling.

If you're gonna start the recalls, start at your MEC level. And maybe find out how your status representative voted on the issue at your local level. This is a far deeper issue than the figurehead president.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Because I'm not completely clueless and blind. Anyone can see what happened here. ALPA's biggest buddy on the Hill proposed stand alone legislation to change this regulation, and you expect me to believe that Prater had nothing to do with it? Sorry, doesn't pass the smell test. Not to mention the fact that every time I've talked with Prater, all he can do is rant and rave about Age-60. It's an obsession with him, and it has been since before he even took office.

So what is his motive?

 

[PCL_128]

So what is his motive?

I don't know what his biggest driver is. When he starts ranting, he hits on just about every issue the pro-change crowd has ever talked about: loss of pensions, age discrimination, personal choice, etc.... Besides it doesn't really matter to me what his motivation is. The membership spoke, and he didn't listen. He deserves to be recalled, but unfortunately, the membership apathy precludes that possibility from ever coming to pass.

 

[vetrider]

Actually if I'm not mistaken your primary beef should be with your MEC Chairman unless you work for NWA or XJT.

Every MEC Chairman but those two voted in favor of supporting the change as they comprise the Executive Board.

The Executive Board set the direction. The President (Prater) carried out the direction of the Executive Board as he is tasked to do.

Technically, John Prater did his job. It is true, however, that he should have questioned the direction set by the Board since it was at odds with membership polling.

If you're gonna start the recalls, start at your MEC level. And maybe find out how your status representative voted on the issue at your local level. This is a far deeper issue than the figurehead president.

Funny, he can't do his job with a piece of paper with a few names on it. I guess it just depends on how he sees the specific issue.

 

[list2002]

Said NO to age 65 but admit I said would like ALPA to be part of the decision making process if age 65 was imminent. Now know to stick to my guns. Shoulda just said no. Nice out ALPA, now I know to stick to my guns when asked if ALPA represented my best interests.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

 

[skyward80]

Why do people keep paying ALPA dues if they're so unhappy with the union?

It seems like there are a lot of people who don't like ALPA, but are they the majority? If they are, why don't they try to decertify ALPA at their respective airlines? The US Airways guys are giving it a shot (anybody know what happened with that?).

This is NOT flame bait. Just a question from an outsider looking in.

Thanks.
Skyward80

 

[Mach 80]

Sacko,

Nice try, but that chart you cite has been proven to be absolutely false. In fact, many people live longer as a result of working longer due to more stimulation, more relationships with friends/co-workers, more of a sense of purpose, etc.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/4286.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1273451

http://www.speea.org/general_info/files/life.htm

 

[Max Powers]

Sacko,

Nice try, but that chart you cite has been proven to be absolutely false. In fact, many people live longer as a result of working longer due to more stimulation, more relationships with friends/co-workers, more of a sense of purpose, etc.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/4286.html

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1273451

http://www.speea.org/general_info/files/life.htm

http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/coe/gutub/english_misc/retire1.htm

It is actually good research rooted in academia. Of course there are other charts but in the aggregate this makes the most sense.

But then some writer from the Earth times maybe as smart as a noble Phd trained scientist.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I don't know what his biggest driver is.

Maybe you should find out before you call for recall. I am not saying he should nor should not be recalled. I am just saying you need a better reason.... .. "I don't know" doesn't pass the sniff test..

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Jeesh, Thanks Max. I've got it in PDF form, and have been trying for 3 hours to switch it over so it'll post. You my friend, are a lifesaver.

 

[PCL_128]

Maybe you should find out before you call for recall. I am not saying he should nor should not be recalled. I am just saying you need a better reason.... .. "I don't know" doesn't pass the sniff test..

I'm not a mind reader, Rez. It's impossible for me to know what his true motivation is. All I can know is what I've heard him say, both publicly and privately, and I've heard nothing acceptable from him to explain this action. He has ignored the will of the membership. He should be recalled.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I'm not a mind reader, Rez. It's impossible for me to know what his true motivation is. All I can know is what I've heard him say, both publicly and privately, and I've heard nothing acceptable from him to explain this action. He has ignored the will of the membership. He should be recalled.

Document your case... put it together..... start a website...

 

[tittyjet]

Some informational picketing in front of Herndon offices would be pretty fukkin funny.

 

[YourPilotFriend]

deleted

 

[FR8dognit]

At least part of SWAPA was. I think the last vote was something like 55-45.

Last vote was 59-41 and about 1,000...count em' 1000 F/O's didn't bother voting. The milk is already spilled boys. Its time to lick it up. To bad it spilled in the kitty litter box.

 

[Hvy]

A question to those of you angry at ALPA: did you participate in the survey? Are you aware that not even 50% of the membership even bothered to vote in the survey? I think Prater has handled this horribly, and I disagree with ALPA's current position on this issue, but the fact of the matter is that the membership didn't even bother to get involved in this.

You are correct but that's not the whole story. Of those that did vote the overwhelming majority did not want to change the rule.

 

[flygirlqt]

So what is his motive?

5 more years at $500,000 plus bennies?

 

[flygirlqt]

Why do people keep paying ALPA dues if they're so unhappy with the union?

It seems like there are a lot of people who don't like ALPA, but are they the majority? If they are, why don't they try to decertify ALPA at their respective airlines? The US Airways guys are giving it a shot (anybody know what happened with that?).

This is NOT flame bait. Just a question from an outsider looking in.

Thanks.
Skyward80

Dues payments are not voluntary. If you don't pay the union can have you terminated.

Great system huh?

 

[PCL_128]

Document your case... put it together..... start a website...

My membership status reads "inactive," so I don't really think that's my place. The active membership needs to rise up and demand accountable representation. Prater seems to think that he is above the will of the membership, and someone needs to teach him that that's not the case. It won't be me, however, unless my carrier's union merges into ALPA someday. (something that would now be harder to accomplish thanks to Prater alienating an even larger portion of the industry )

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

You are correct but that's not the whole story. Of those that did vote the overwhelming majority did not want to change the rule.

The majority of the minority?

5 more years at $500,000 plus bennies?

What is the difference between his CAL income and retirement and his ALPA Pres......baby?

Dues payments are not voluntary. If you don't pay the union can have you terminated.

Great system huh?

Kinda like our tax system... how many would not pay taxes?

 

[PCL_128]

The majority of the minority?

The "majority of the minority" elects all politicians, including the President of the United States, in this country. Are those elections all invalid in your mind simply because the true majority of the population didn't participate? Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The membership spoke. Prater ignored them, then stabbed them in the back. I will continue to support ALPA because I believe strongly in the Association, but I look forward to the day that Prater is kicked out on his ass.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My membership status reads "inactive," so I don't really think that's my place.

Why not. Your effected by it.

The active membership needs to rise up and demand accountable representation.

The membership needs to do allot of things...

Prater seems to think that he is above the will of the membership, and someone needs to teach him that that's not the case.

Not sure if he thinks he is above the will.... who's gonna teach him?

It won't be me, however, unless my carrier's union merges into ALPA someday.

You are still effected as all non ALPA pilots are. ALPA was THE main player on this Age 60 fiasco.

(something that would now be harder to accomplish thanks to Prater alienating an even larger portion of the industry )

Valid point.... however, yet another reason to join ALPA. ALPA is changing the retirement age for all pilots mind as well join and fix it..

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The "majority of the minority" elects all politicians, including the President of the United States, in this country.

The masses or citizens are too irresponsible, undecated and apathetic to vote.

Are those elections all invalid in your mind simply because the true majority of the population didn't participate? Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

No of course not.... my point is.... if a majority of the membership particapted then the message would have been louder. If more resolutions were brought to meetings and passed then things might have been different.

The membership spoke.

But even so.... the real question is.... was the change really stoppable? How much influence did ALPA really have.

After the EC and EB got breifed by gov't affairs... those guys new it was like trying to hold back the ocean.

It comes down to what you believe..

Prater ignored them, then stabbed them in the back. I will continue to support ALPA because I believe strongly in the Association, but I look forward to the day that Prater is kicked out on his ass.

That's fine. But he was also following the direction of the EB....