Age 65 right around corner... 15 year upgrades at SWA!!!

[FlyByNight1]

anyone here if any of the airlines will still allow full retirement at age 60 if you so choose? I dont think many of the 59 year olds planning retirement are looking forward to a forced 5 more years.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

My Dad used to call ALPA "The Captains union". Nothing has changed since the old days, except Prater and the top echelon will get to enjoy their exorbitant and outrageous ALPA salaries for another 5 years.

The Old days? Is that when co-pilots had no vote or half a vote?

Outrageous salaries? Prater is the only one who is on salary. The 1St VP, VP Finance and VP Admin all get what they would earn flying the line minus per deim, plus expenses, including the cost of Wash DC living. Didn't Dad tell you that?

Just becuase age 60 goes to 65 doesn't mean they are in for another five years. They have to get elected.

Time to dump ALPA.

Sounds good. Who will lead the new organization? Or will there be one? If there will be one, will the new organization state: A minority particaption will be considered a majority?

Recall with this Age60/65, the minority that particapted (is that a majority?) stated that if the law where to change beyond the control of ALPA, would the membership want ALPA to influence the language as best possible for its members (my words). The minority majority agreed.

Recall, ALPA and unions are not regulatory. So they must have consensus. Yet the membership was too bothered to be involved...


But lets get back to more important things...

ALPA SUCKS!!! Let's burn it down!. It's nothing but a democracy! Its a Captain Club! Its for fuddy Duddies! Suck it John! Secretary salaries are out of control. Pitch forks and torches, lets go to Herndon!

 

[flygirlqt]

Well that sure didn't take long.

The Old days? Is that when co-pilots had no vote or half a vote?




Sounds good. Who will lead the new organization? Or will there be one? If there will be one, will the new organization state: A minority particaption will be considered a majority?

Recall with this Age60/65, the minority that particapted (is that a majority?) stated that if the law where to change beyond the control of ALPA, would the membership want ALPA to influence the language as best possible for its members (my words). The minority majority agreed.

Recall, ALPA and unions are not regulatory. So they must have consensus. Yet the membership was too bothered to be involved...


But lets get back to more important things...

ALPA SUCKS!!! Let's burn it down!. It's nothing but a democracy! Its a Captain Club! Its for fuddy Duddies! Suck it John! Secretary salaries are out of control. Pitch forks and torches, lets go to Herndon!

There you have it..just as I predicted..the memberships fault.

Seriously, you are a tool to eep believing in your messiahs in Herndon. Maybe if you brown nose a little longer and harder they might even let you shine their shoes.

What kind of shoes do these vermin wear when making $500K + off our backs anyway?

 

[SuperFLUF]

............Translation: Anyone under 50 will be forced to work until they are 65 in order to make the same pay and retirement they would have made by 60 now......

Working to 65 won't make up for the lost retirement. The 5 year loss of compounding and time value of money invested will more than double the requirement to make it up.

So the next group will push for age 67 and then the group affected by that will push for 69 or 70.....and the next thing you know, retirement plans won't be needed. Only pre-paid funeral plans that include shipping from whatever lay over you die at.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

There you have it..just as I predicted..the memberships fault.

It all starts and ends there. Should Prater come over to your house and ask you want you want for Christmas. When he is done he can go visit the other 59,999 ALPA pilots. maybe you can sit on his lap and get your picture taken. and tell him what you want for your airline career.

If ALPA is the same and nothing changed since the days of your Dad.....

Then why did you get in this profession? Why do you expect it to be different?

Seriously, you are a tool to eep believing in your messiahs in Herndon. Maybe if you brown nose a little longer and harder they might even let you shine their shoes.

Who cares about the Herndon people. (btw, I've real issues with some of the staffers..but that is another thread...)

What kind of shoes do these vermin wear when making $500K + off our backs anyway?

As I said to you in another thread.. when you are ready to be informed and educated.. and effect positive change... your entire career is waiting for you....

 

[Deerkiller]

anyone here if any of the airlines will still allow full retirement at age 60 if you so choose? I dont think many of the 59 year olds planning retirement are looking forward to a forced 5 more years.

It'll have to be negotiated. Check out paragraph "f" in the Bill.

 

[Full of LUV]

Alpa???

It all starts and ends there. Should Prater come over to your house and ask you want you want for Christmas. When he is done he can go visit the other 59,999 ALPA pilots. maybe you can sit on his lap and get your picture taken. and tell him what you want for your airline career.

If ALPA is the same and nothing changed since the days of your Dad.....

Then why did you get in this profession? Why do you expect it to be different?



Who cares about the Herndon people. (btw, I've real issues with some of the staffers..but that is another thread...)



As I said to you in another thread.. when you are ready to be informed and educated.. and effect positive change... your entire career is waiting for you....

Rez,
I agree that a lot of the ALPA rhetoric is overdone, but didn't a majority of the minority also say that ALPA should resist the change in retirement age???? Also, why does ALPA propose nothing about mitigating the windfall to the pilots who will turn 60 next year, ie phasing in the rules change??? Lastly, why does a "Blue Ribbon Panel" on the retirement age change consist of like 9 captains and one FO. I'm pretty sure the makeup of ALPA is closer to 50/50. I think we all know the reason, and it is not going to be easy to convince the FO ALPA membership that they were not just bent over and handed a ******************** sandwich on which they will dine the remainder of their careers.
Luv

 

[Yuppyguppy]

This is a disgrace to all of us who said NO...

 

[Flopgut]

There is an opportunity for those not is favor of this. ALPA's stated goal is to maintain age 60 as normal retirement age. Communicate to your reps that you want this to mean something and that you want to vote on it. As it goes into your collective bargaining agreement reduce pay for work past normal retirement age. Something significant (thier vacations should be reduced as well) like a new sort of B scale. Last five years should go from 50% hourly wage down to new hire pay for thier last year. Wean them off harshly and keep the money going to the younger pilots. Working past age 60 should be an abnormal situation, we want these pilots to ration themselves and work no longer than they need to. If we don't do this we are going to suffer the same arguement for age 70.

This is a great opportunity to get involved and it should be a slam dunk: the MAJORITY is against it! Prater might try to ignore the previously stated goal of maintaining age 60 retirement as normal, so the first step is to communicate with your reps.

Let em work! But make it sting a little. It will be good for them, us and ALPA.

Call and email your reps.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

ONE LAST thing to for SWA guys remeber SWAPA was for the age 65...

 

[mdf]

ONE LAST thing to for SWA guys remeber SWAPA was for the age 65...

At least part of SWAPA was. I think the last vote was something like 55-45.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez,
I agree that a lot of the ALPA rhetoric is overdone, but didn't a majority of the minority also say that ALPA should resist the change in retirement age????

Yes... ALPA should resist the change. However another question was.. if ALPA cannot stop the change, should ALPA work with the changes or fight it steadfast? (my words). (which way is most influential and effective? Having a seat at the table of change or not being invited to the meeting of change?)

Recall ALPA, APA, SWAPA are unions. They are not lawmakers. They can only influence the lawmakers.

Also, why does ALPA propose nothing about mitigating the windfall to the pilots who will turn 60 next year, ie phasing in the rules change??? Lastly, why does a "Blue Ribbon Panel" on the retirement age change consist of like 9 captains and one FO. I'm pretty sure the makeup of ALPA is closer to 50/50. I think we all know the reason, and it is not going to be easy to convince the FO ALPA membership that they were not just bent over and handed a ******************** sandwich on which they will dine the remainder of their careers.
Luv

fair enough... but I don't think any member has much to say if they didn't particapte:

I am willing to bet that the average ALPA member did not:

1. particapte in the Age 60 survey. The first and SECOND one.

2. participate in the LEC elections which in turn sent the delegates to the BOD who elected Prater. Recall Duane W. was pro age 60 and he had the CapHill contacts. If anyone could have kept age 60 it was DW. But everyone was too pissed and had to have change. They had to kick out DW.

3. Participate in US Congressional elections. Yet these congressmen are drafting the Age law and voting on it.


So the age 60 thing is supposed to go "the way the membership" wants it but they don't want to particapte.

Let me put it this way. You don't write a Xmas wish list, and on Xmas morn you don't get what you want, and it's Santa's fault.... get real.

But the whiney retort is big deal.... non particaption is the status quo.... who cares!!

 

[V-STALL]

:bawling: I don't want to work past 55- let alone another 10 years!

 

[sleeves]

The younger pilots just got their butts handed to them. This is what happens when one only cries on some message board and pays dues. The older group bought their own lobbyist, created groups for their cause, had a very organized approach to effect their change.

If you do not want this kind of stuff happing in the future then get involved. Don't call your rep, become one. Sending your congressmen a letter does almost nothing. You have to have an organized approach. Most cannot give up the time, it would eat into their flightinfo surfing.

 

[filejw]

No chance of being forced to work over 60 unless the IRS changes some pension rules, like forcing penalties on what may now be called early retirement(60).