Age 65 Retirement passes House 390-0

[BLUE BAYOU]

So here's a question. How effective were your phone calls to your representatives and ALPA union opposing AGE 65? I guess the result says it all!!!

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Ah yes... the gloating starts

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

It's not gloating. I mean, unless all the crying was done on this forum, I'd understand. But there seemed to have been quite a vocal stand against the change to AGE 65 from ALPA members and even a full page article in the USA Today from American Airlines' union. How in the world does it pass 390-0? That is a unanimous descision folks and since when did the House not vote party lines or at least have one disenting vote? What in the world happened????

 

[FlyinGuy]

Blue it is all about the money!!! The pro 65er's had the support on the hill (i.e. money). There was not a lot of cash flowing for the no change crowd.

 

[Noserider76]

Amazing that the only thing the government can get done lately is BS legislation like this. FAA modernization? Ahhhhhh, that will take years.

 

[mynameisjim]

I sent one of the form letters to my rep about not passing age 65. He sent me a form letter about how he agrees with it, so will pass it.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Just think, only a couple more years before the same folks cry that 65 is discrimination. I'm sure greed doesn't end at 65.

Let's start the age 70 bandwagon.

 

[Hpilot]

Good thing I'm working towards leaving aviation. What a joke. First f#$@ed by terrorists, then management in bankruptcy. Now by greedy scum sucking fellow pilots. Is it any wonder this profession is where it is. I can't wait until I get to watch the first over 60 idiot screw up. I see it all the time in the late 50's crowd. As long as it doesn't get anyone killed I'm not saying a friggin word. Oh boy that's a serious violation, too bad bud you're PIC.

 

[sean67]

How could it not pass..the majority our congress is of the same age as the pilots that want this passed. So, when will this BS actually be implemented? Does the FAA have any say?

 

[FoxHunter]

How could it not pass..the majority our congress is of the same age as the pilots that want this passed. So, when will this BS actually be implemented? Does the FAA have any say?

It becomes effective the day the President signs it.

The FAA does get a say, two words, Yes Sir!

 

[Patriot328]

How could it not pass..the majority our congress is of the same age as the pilots that want this passed. So, when will this BS actually be implemented? Does the FAA have any say?

Tomorrow.


They're going to try to get it on the pres' desk tomorrow (13th). When he signs it (and he will), it goes into effect immediately..

 

[PreContact]

According to http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_110_1.htm the no age 65 bill was voted on Dec 12th. There were 6 bills voted on, but no age 65. Am I missing something?

 

[Missed Approach]

According to http://senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/vote_menu_110_1.htm the no age 65 bill was voted on Dec 12th. There were 6 bills voted on, but no age 65. Am I missing something?

Your looking at the day's Senate activities. It just passed the house today. The senate has not yet voted. It there a 390-0 count in the senate, age 65 should be the least of our concerns.

 

[PreContact]

Apparently the Senate did pass it late tonight. Stay tuned for more tomorrow.

 

[Freight Dog]

As long as it doesn't get anyone killed I'm not saying a friggin word. Oh boy that's a serious violation, too bad bud you're PIC.

And you're part of the crew that will end up getting violated for his screw-up.

No, what you do is you take corrective action so you don't get violated and you write him/her up for incompetence.

 

[taysha]

A APA memo last month said Bush was suppose to veto the bill.


By Alan Levin, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The Senate approved a measure late Wednesday allowing airline pilots to continue flying past age 60.
Final passage of the bill first approved unanimously on Tuesday by the House answers pleas by older pilots who have lost their pensions because of airline bankruptcies. The bill now awaits President Bush's signature.
The measure lets pilots fly until they reach 65, provided they pass medical tests taken twice a year. It also mandates that airlines perform additional proficiency checks on pilots over 60.
Pilot groups who had pushed for the change estimate that 150 to 210 pilots a month are forced to retire when they reach their 60th birthday. "Each day that passes without raising the retirement age to 65, approximately five of our senior, most experienced pilots will be forced to retire," said Transportation Committee Chairman James Oberstar, D-Minn.
Some pilots have for years called for extending the time that they can fly, but the issue had been opposed by a majority of pilots.
FIND MORE STORIES IN: Senate | George W Bush | US Airways | Southwest Airlines | Bill | Air Line Pilots Association
The retirement age was seen as a way of ensuring that jobs existed for younger pilots in an era when flight crews were well paid and expected generous retirements.
But the numerous bankruptcy reorganizations among large airlines in recent years created a dramatically different environment.
Pilots at carriers such as US Airways (LCC) and United Airlines (UAUA) not only received cuts in pay, but many also lost the bulk of their pensions.
"That's a huge driver," said Capt. Paul Emens, a Southwest Airlines (LUV) pilot who heads a group called Airline Pilots Against Age Discrimination. "They want to get back what they lost."
Pete Janhunen, spokesman for the Air Line Pilots Association (ALPA), the nation's largest pilots union, urged President Bush to sign the bill if approved.
ALPA had opposed changes in the retirement age for decades but reversed its position this year and worked closely with legislators on the measure, Janhunen said.
The age-60 rule had been in place since 1960.
After the International Civil Aviation Organization, which sets international flight rules, last year allowed pilots to fly until they reach 65, momentum built quickly to change the rule in the USA.
The Federal Aviation Administration announced in January that it would propose raising the age to 65 but cautioned that it could take years before taking effect.
The law would take effect immediately if it is signed by Bush. It would let airlines rehire pilots who had been forced to retire at 60 in recent years, but those pilots would lose their seniority.
Bill Voss, president of the non-profit Flight Safety Foundation, said his group was satisfied that there are no safety risks to allowing pilots to fly later in life.
Several countries, such as Australia, have no age restriction for airline pilots so long as they can pass medical and flying exams, Voss said.

 

[taysha]

We may see a surge in retirements. Pilots that want to retire at age 60 would be penalized for retiring early.

 

[Miami Freight]

Standby for lawsuits from the pilots who have had to retire in the past couple of years while this legislation was being drafted. Sorry to all of those folks who will be stuck in the right seat five more years or will have to wait for that job in the majors.

 

[Jonny Sacko]

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

 

[Max Powers]

Table 1 – Actuarial Study of lifespan vs. age at retirement.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Age at……………………….Average Age
Retirement…………………….At Death
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
49.9………………………….86
51.2………………………….85.3
52.5………………………….84.6
53.8………………………….83.9
55.1………………………….83.2
56.4………………………….82.5
57.2………………………….81.4
58.3………………………….80
59.2………………………….78.5
60.1………………………….76.8
60……………………………74.5
62.1………………………….71.8
63.1………………………….69.3
64.1………………………….67.9
65.2………………………….66.8

Link to this i found

http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/coe/gutub/english_misc/retire1.htm

 

[Crossky]

Link to this i found

http://faculty.kfupm.edu.sa/coe/gutub/english_misc/retire1.htm

WOW, if that survey is accurate, that's nuts.

Maybe I should pay more attention to those Dennis Hopper ads. Retire at 50, and definitely be able to play more golf than at 65 . . .

 

[Shutr9]

I agree with the majority of pilots on this board, and the overwhelming majority of ALPA pilots. ALPA has blatantly ignored its membership and let us down. The extension of retirement age will do irreparable damage to our labor force long term. Contract leverage will be instantly reduced, existing pensions will be further damaged, career advancement for F/O's and seniority advancement for everyone will be degraded. These are the immediate and tangible issues, which don't begin to address the body fatigue and health issues of an admittedly experienced, but undoubtedly tired portion of the pilot group. Our group as a whole is already pushed to extremes by our current FAA duty limits and the continued efforts of crew scheduling to be more efficient. Current pilot mortality rates exceed that of the population, they aren't going to improve by flying after age 60.

Understanding that there are pilots who are benefited by the change, they are severely outnumbered by those who are adversely affected.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

How old were those pilots for that Continental Regional who failed to hold short of runways 22L/R the other day at EWR??? Sad truth is any pilot young or old can be fatigued or mentally lacking. But there are more stories of experienced pilots who've saved the day too... AGE 65 finally brings us into the 20th Century and ICAO standards. Now lets all get over it and move on. All those who have to wait 5 years to upgrade, well, y'all get to work until 65 now so what's the difference? I like the linear graphics on retirement age and longevity of life. My guess is those who retired early were well-off and therefore able to lead a more stressfree life; maybe you should've gotten an income breakdown of those who retired early-- I'll bet you the other linear scale is rich retire early live long have decent health care, poor retire late have crappy health care die early...

 

[Jonny Sacko]

How old were those pilots for that Continental Regional who failed to hold short of runways 22L/R the other day at EWR???

Almost the same age as the idiots that stuffed probes up their asses and on their wrists and flew across the country and back almost killing 150.. no make that 145 people. Who cares about them.

 

[DashTrash400]

All those who have to wait 5 years to upgrade, well, y'all get to work until 65 now so what's the difference?

Really? Freaking sweet! I was planning on being on a sailboat doing some rum-soaked cruising through the tropics right about then but you're totally right, another five years of work to make up for all that career stagnation sounds WAY funner! Thanks for reminding us to always look on the bright side of life!

 

[batsky2000]

How old were those pilots for that Continental Regional who failed to hold short of runways 22L/R the other day at EWR??? Sad truth is any pilot young or old can be fatigued or mentally lacking. But there are more stories of experienced pilots who've saved the day too... AGE 65 finally brings us into the 20th Century and ICAO standards. Now lets all get over it and move on. All those who have to wait 5 years to upgrade, well, y'all get to work until 65 now so what's the difference? I like the linear graphics on retirement age and longevity of life. My guess is those who retired early were well-off and therefore able to lead a more stressfree life; maybe you should've gotten an income breakdown of those who retired early-- I'll bet you the other linear scale is rich retire early live long have decent health care, poor retire late have crappy health care die early...

EXACTLY!!!! We will Finally follow ICAO like the rest of the world considering that we are part of ICAO, it is funny how often we don't follow the rest of the world when changes happen.

I also agree that people are living longer, and accidents happen at any age, pilots screw up young and old, so age is not a factor like many profess

I have flown for a Part 121 airline and now fly for a Part 135 Airline, the 2 rules are very much the same and in some places, P135 is more restrictive, but in P135, there is no age limit, never has been, so you guys that say that it is unsafe for a pilot to fly past 60 for a commercial airline, There are plenty of over 60 pilots flying for P135 operators all over, if it is safe to fly large jets for a P135 company to destinations all over the world, then it is safe to fly the same at an airline

Heck, you can't get government benefits till 65, so this makes sense in that respect too

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Totally Agree!!!! About time

 

[jke406]

AGE 65 finally brings us into the 20th Century and ICAO standards. ...

Sweet Jeezus, ICAO includes places like France, third world countries, etc. etc.

Since when do we want to emulate those idiots?

We should aspire to something much higher than the international standard. We just got sold out, there are no two ways about it. Feel free to go work in an ICAO country if that's all you want. Good luck with that.

 

[ex-nutjeter]

Sweet Jeezus, ICAO includes places like France, third world countries, etc. etc.

Since when do we want to emulate those idiots?

We should aspire to something much higher than the international standard. We just got sold out, there are no two ways about it. Feel free to go work in an ICAO country if that's all you want. Good luck with that.

You must be the idiot, do your homework, we are an ICAO nation, in fact we have 2 members on the voting council, it makes perfect sense to follow ICAO policies since we vote them in

 

[jke406]

You must be the idiot, do your homework, we are an ICAO nation, in fact we have 2 members on the voting council, it makes perfect sense to follow ICAO policies since we vote them in

I'm advocating that we should strive for something higher than the international standard. It hasn't bothered the US to have it's own, non-ICAO conforming idiosincracies in other areas, but now, all of a sudden, we should conform?

And I'm the idiot?

Congratulations on being able to fly during your retirement, old timer. Hope it's everything you dreamed it would be.