Age 60 legislation is moving fast as of today

[777TX]

Peanut Gallery, what's a 104 rule? I did a search, but no joy. Also, can you reveal your source?
Thanks.


The 104 rule is that the combined age of the two front seat pilots must not exceed 104 years if one crewmember is over 60. I do some legal work on the side and was in a consultation yesterday along with a fellow "expert witness" that spent the last two years working on the age 60 due dilligence for the Feds. He recieved the call yesterday from Washington, it could happen quick.

Wow-does that mean a 64 year old will have to have a 40 year old or less partner? That could be hard to do in the 777 @ Continental.

 

[100 c.i.]

I think you might feel a little foolish when this comes to pass.

How can you get up in the morning and look at your old greedy, self-centered face in the mirror knowing that pilots are still on furlough? Retire and get a life before its over Old Man.......
PS Dont you think 25000 hours is enough.

 

[Peanut gallery]

That is exactly what is being proposed

I never heard of it before, but that stipulation is presently being attached to the legislation. I did not think to ask about three pilot crews and heavy crew pairings. Going back to the hearing today so if I get the chance I will ask about that.

 

[Peanut gallery]

I do not have a dog in this fight

How can you get up in the morning and look at your old greedy, self-centered face in the mirror knowing that pilots are still on furlough? Retire and get a life before its over Old Man.......

I am just passing along information as it becomes available, information is power and maybe someone with a dog in this fight such as yourself or your reps can express your opinion where it might do some good for your cause.

 

[777TX]

I am just passing along information as it becomes available, information is power and maybe someone with a dog in this fight such as yourself or your reps can express your opinion where it might do some good for your cause.

Your efforts are appreciated here.

Just keep posting what you know.

 

[Flopgut]

The worst things in this business do seem to come as an ambush. If this 104 rule is at all correct you can expect our highest seniority seat positions [widebody aircraft] to perhaps suffer economically. Current staffing methodology for CAL 777s will not work. But, I guess that's OK as long as SWA and a minority of oldsters get whatever they need?!

We deserve the money without the five extra years folks! We've overdone it! Especially SWA pilots. Over the decades we've simultaneously delivered an incredible reduction in the cost of air travel, and garnered an incredible safety record. Nothing compares, NOTHING! Example: Errors in the medical profession take a terrible toll and go almost unreported compared to what we do. We need to assert ourselves and this age change is the antithesis of what we should be doing.

Peanut: Does the fact that what you are witnessing seems strikingly covert and contrary to anything previously considered not make you uncomfortable?

 

[Flopgut]

Peanut Gallery, what's a 104 rule? I did a search, but no joy. Also, can you reveal your source?
Thanks.


The 104 rule is that the combined age of the two front seat pilots must not exceed 104 years if one crewmember is over 60. I do some legal work on the side and was in a consultation yesterday along with a fellow "expert witness" that spent the last two years working on the age 60 due dilligence for the Feds. He recieved the call yesterday from Washington, it could happen quick.

This rule will have an upper limit of 65, right? If this rule let's a 70 year old fly with a 33 year old this profession is srcewed.

 

[Aplus9]

I can't speak for your company but at SWA it will add 12-16 months for upgrade. So I did some math I will work a yr at 6th yr pay and a yr at 7th yr pay.... that is 107/108 per trip. For that sacrifice I will get 5 yrs at 160+ per trip. I ave 110 trips per month. It is easy to see that here at SWA farsighted FO's should hold their water and bide their time for the 16 months the payoff is in the end.

There are a lot of assumptions built into those numbers, like continued growth (35 airplanes a year) for example. Any slow downs will increase that time for upgrade. Too many unkowns with this change in retirement age, all coming during a year when we are supposed to be focused on contract negotiations.:erm:

 

[ultrarunner]

But you start drawing on it 5 years earlier. Did they give an example of how much less would be contributed?

Raising the age to 65 is an unforseen event that will penalize the younger pilots just as the loss of pensions/furlough later in the career of some of the older pilots penalized them.

But only to a point AA. And only in comparision to older pilots. You're thinking short-term. At some point the economy will settle. No one will be on furlough airlines will recover, and there will be pilots that will reap benefits by being able to work 5 more years. Think: "401K Catch up" for example that all pilots on the list could take advantage of.

All the arguements on here against it, from what I have read, have only argued on the short-term side of things.

Years from now, we'll be reading the same arguments on how 65 shouldn't be changed to 70. It's all relative.

 

[GuppyWN]

Both K-Mart and Huck,

What I still have not figured out is why the SWA pilots continue to sell out the profession and themselves to help keep the company’s cost down. You know – pull another one for Herb. Instead of hosing all the younger guys around the industry – why don’t you fix your retirement and health care via negotiation? LUV pilots should be demanding an adequate retirement. I have been told that some LUV pilots are retiring with $2 million plus so why can they not afford their health care? My feeling is a good deal of LUV’s pilots have burnt through their retirement savings and are now ill prepared for their retirement and now have to work another five years to make ends meet.

It’s sad how the arguably healthiest company doesn’t have an adequate retirement program in place after 35 years. This reeks of terrible negotiation on the part of SWAPA and now it has implication for the rest of us in the industry.

Our APA president said he was in contract with SWAPA’s and they are going to soon repoll their membership on the Age 60 issue. SWAPA’s president (I forget his name) says he expects a 60/40 vote in favor of Age 65.

Age 65 really only helps the pilots on the top of the heap. At slow/negative growth airlines such as American, it will spell disaster for the lower majority of the membership/furloughees with an additional 3-5 years of stagnation and/or out in the street. What happens at the next economic downturn and/or terrorist hit. It won’t be pretty.

This process is far from over. Get involved.

AA767AV8TOR

AA. I'll tell you exactly what it is. It's greed!

I've never seen a bunch of dudes torpedo themselves better than pilots. Couple three wives, boats, houses, cars. At 58 with a couple under 10 year old third marriage kids at home they start to sh!t themselves.

When it becomes 65 the same cycle will repeat itself with a couple of year delay. The guys that are saying otherwise are either lying or they're idiots. The only thing that will change is that I will have given away five years of family time in retirement.

Gup