Age 60 informal poll

[b757driver]

Stirring the Pot more....

EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE UNTIL 4 PM ET, FEBRUARY 26, 2007

Media Contact: Robin Stinnett, (651) 695-2763, [email protected]

Does Age Affect a Pilot’s Ability to Fly?

EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE UNTIL 4 P.M. ET, MONDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2007

ST. PAUL, Minn – EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE UNTIL 4 P.M. ET, MONDAY, FEBRUARY 26, 2007 Media Contacts: Angela Babb, [email protected] , (651) 695-2789 Robin Stinnett, [email protected], (651) 695-2763

Does Age Affect a Pilot’s Ability to Fly? ST. PAUL, Minn – Older pilots performed better over time than younger pilots on flight simulator tests. Researchers say the findings, published in the February 27, 2007, issue of Neurology®, the scientific journal of the American Academy of Neurology, show expert knowledge may offset the impact of old age in some occupations.

The study’s results come as the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) considers a proposal to raise the mandatory age of retirement for commercial airline pilots to 65 from the current age of 60.

For the study, researchers tested 118 non-commercial airline pilots, age 40 to 69, annually for three years. All pilots were currently flying, had between 300 and 15,000 hours of total flight time, and had a FAA medical certificate. Pilots were tested on accuracy of executing communications, traffic avoidance, scanning cockpit instruments to detect emergencies, and executing a visual approach landing.

The study found while older pilots initially performed worse than younger pilots, older pilots showed less of a decline in overall flight summary scores than younger pilots, and over time their traffic avoidance performances improved more than that of younger pilots. The study also found pilots with advanced FAA pilot ratings and certifications showed less performance decline over time, regardless of age.

“These findings show the advantageous effect of prior experience and specialized expertise on older adults’ skilled cognitive performances,” said study author Joy L. Taylor, PhD, with the Stanford/VA Aging Clinical Research Center in Palo Alto, California. “Our discovery has broader implications beyond aviation to the general issue of aging in the workplace and the objective assessment of competency in older workers.”

Researchers suggest that pilots with advanced FAA pilot ratings may maintain performance over time due to a mechanism of preserved task-specific knowledge, known as crystallized intelligence, which is similar to what is seen in music or expert chess playing.

The study was supported by the Sierra-Pacific Mental Illness Research, Education, and Clinical Center, the Medical Research Service of the Department of Veteran Affairs, and the National Institute on Aging.

The American Academy of Neurology, an association of more than 20,000 neurologists and neuroscience professionals, is dedicated to improving patient care through education and research. A neurologist is a doctor with specialized training in diagnosing, treating and managing disorders of the brain and nervous system such as stroke, Alzheimer’s disease, epilepsy, Parkinson’s disease, and multiple sclerosis. For more information about the American Academy of Neurology, visit www.aan.com

 

[Dizel8]

Just say NO to age 65!

 

[airfogey]

Watch, APA change their tune if American's A plan goes away--its never been about safety, past present or future.
Airfogey

 

[pilotyip]

rasie it to 66 SSN retirement age.

 

[Dizel8]

Lower the SS retirement age for pilots, after all, the goverment decided on the age, don't let them penalize us for their choice.

 

[Flyby1206]

“These findings show the advantageous effect of prior experience and specialized expertise on older adults’ skilled cognitive performances,” said study author Joy L. Taylor, PhD, with the Stanford/VA Aging Clinical Research Center in Palo Alto, California.

It is obvious that you gain experience proportional with the amount of time in the cockpit, but would it be safe to have a 59yr old newhire FO and have him/her upgrade to CA without decades of experience to rely upon? I know that they have many regional carriers with quick upgrades, but the pilots are mostly in the 25-45 age range and can use their faster reflexes to make up for a lack of judgement.

 

[districtpilot]

yes 65

 

[vtwo]

I agree. It's all about meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

It was never about safety, it was about geting rid of high paid pilots in 1958

Because in 1958 the old DC6/7 pilots did not have the abilities to fly the new jets and CR Smith knew it. The psychology study just posted proved that you can not teach an old dog new tricks.

And the MD80 presents the flying public with the same problems we had in 1958. American has over 388 MD80s with old timers who will be dangerous in the new Boeing models as they lack that prior experience. Their minds are not crystallized concerning the new technology after 20 years in the 27 and 80.

 

[pilotyip]

back to vtwo. it is all about meeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

[pilotyip]

Flying until I am 69 now

RESEARCH BODES WELL FOR OLDER PILOTS
Research shows you can teach an old pilot new tricks. A study published in the February issue of Neurology showed that expert knowledge may offset the impact of old age in some occupations. Researchers tested 118 pilots, aged 40 to 69, in a flight simulator on an annual basis for three years. All the pilots were currently flying, had medical certificates, and had between 300 and 15,000 hours of flight time. They were tested on communications, traffic avoidance, instrument scanning, emergency detection, and visual approaches. While older pilots initially performed worse than younger pilots, older pilots showed less of a decline in overall flight summary scores. They also improved more than younger pilots when it came to traffic avoidance. Pilots with advanced ratings and certificates also showed less of a performance decline over time, regardless of age. This is known as "crystallized intelligence," also seen in music and expert chess playing. The AOPA Air Safety Foundation is commissioning its own study where it will look at a broader age range—including those older than 69.

 

[Flopgut]

Three heart attacks at CAL in the last 45 days. Two resulted in diverts, one happened on a jetway. Sadly, one perished.

You want to know how the churn and turmoil of the last 6 years manifests itself 20 years down the road? Look at CAL. Two Bks, a strike, multiple mergers 20 years ago; guys and gals went thru he!!. Not a good thing. Pretty short sighted to be thinking changing retirement age is automatically a good decision.

 

[pilotyip]

how old were the HA?

 

[Flopgut]

The one in the jetway was 58 yrs, 10 months. He lived and is not doing too good, but improving. One divert was the very unfortunate gentleman who died, and I think his age was reported on here (I don't have it in front of me). The third, also was a divert, happened to a guy that had about 24+ years at CAL (I'm estimating). The third one has not been widely reprted, but the guys is going to live.

They've all had a lot of years at CAL. Which means they've had terrible work rules and been rode hard and put up wet. Now every airline has the same basic work rules so we should be able to see where this is going, right? Wrong, we think the answer is working longer! Well, really the only pilots who think it's a good idea are the ones with sufficient seniority to insulate them from the work rules. Coincidentally, they have the best remaining pay and vacations.

You starting to see who the greedy ones are Yip?

 

[pilotyip]

In the words of Mike Douglas "Greed is good"

 

[Flopgut]

In the words of Mike Douglas "Greed is good"

Huh?

Oh, that's right I forgot...You're management.

 

[pilotyip]

Adam Smith

only quoter of M. Douglas. Greed, one of the 7 deadly. however it matches Adam Smith in the "Welath of Nations" The key to economic transactions is everyone looks out for their own best interest.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

What do you know kid? Boomers, X'ers, and Y's

During the interview the candidate was called a kid? Must have made the Boomer doing it feel superior.

Boomer verse X'er verse the Y generation. Y's may just stick it to the boomers. We will see.

http://finance.yahoo.com/expert/article/careerist/25939

 

[I Hate Freight]

Just say NO to age 65!

Nice bumper sticker. You can say NO all you want but age 60 is as good as dead. Get used to it.

 

[pilotyip]

lets go for age 66, SSN retirement age

 

[Laboule]

60

Everyone in the airlines now knew the rules when they joined...maybe change it to 65 for incoming airline pilots today, but don't change the rules in the 9th inning.

We are big boys and should have saved for retirement by now. We shouldn't hurt future generations' careers for our own greed.

...or, you're the one who married her (and her), not me.

 

[jonjuan]

Everyone in the airlines now knew the rules when they joined...maybe change it to 65 for incoming airline pilots today, but don't change the rules in the 9th inning.

Or what about the 7th day, the 4th quarter, the third period.....LOL. If you have done a good job early in your career, were prudent in your savings and spending, and married the right gal who didn't decide to take you for all you're worth or gosh forbid, married one who had her own career, making her own money, you shouldn't worry. You'll still retire with millions. Unless of course you were hired by Plato in 1999 and fell for the, "Kid, you'll walk away with $15 million by the time you're 55" speech and lived like a rock star at 38.
If you want to work 12 days a month when you're 61, you are able. By the way, the airline pilot divorce rate is over 70% which says that the majority of pilots in their 30s and 40s will someday wish for age 65.

 

[I Hate Freight]

Everyone in the airlines now knew the rules when they joined...maybe change it to 65 for incoming airline pilots today, but don't change the rules in the 9th inning.

Total nonsense. That's like saying you have no right to try and make your neighborhood better because you knew it had problems when you moved in. It's called change, progress. Age 60 is as good as GONE! Get used to it son. IT's GONE!

 

[Freight Dog]

Yeah, it'll be gone when the first metal gets bent because of old farts. Get used to it, GRAMPS! You ain't as good as you once were...

 

[b757driver]

Everyone in the airlines now knew the rules when they joined...maybe change it to 65 for incoming airline pilots today, but don't change the rules in the 9th inning.

We are big boys and should have saved for retirement by now. We shouldn't hurt future generations' careers for our own greed.

...or, you're the one who married her (and her), not me.

What planet have you been living on, man???!!
Haven't you noticed the world changing? Things DO change you know - sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse but the ONLY thing in life that is certain IS change. It will come as it has in the rest of the world, so get used to it. Knew the rules? That is a total cop out and you know it...governments, agencies and corporate entities all change policies and procedures over time, so to say that you knew 50 years ago what you were getting into is a pretty dumb remark.
I don't want some legislator or some smart ass telling me how I should or should not live my life. That is what America is supposed to be about, in case you had not noticed - freedom of expression and the right of individuals.
And something else you clearly have not noticed is that not every pilot has had two, three wives/divorces, yachts, not saved for pensions etc. I certainly have not gone wild and have been married the once, no boat or flashy car and I save for my own retiement - I don't get anyone to do that for me or on my behalf. I take care of it.
Irrespective, not everyone has had the same breaks as you or I, so you can't lump everyone together just because you've never been laid-off/furloughed/unemployed through no fault of your own and had to start over. It does happen and some go on to make a success of it others quit and more pwer to them but I would not go on record to say that they should have done this or that. It ain't my business for a start and I don't know their full circumstances.
Whatever the reasons, it's a person's individual right to work (or not as the case may be) for as long as he/she is able and meets the requirements of the job.
Finally, the most successful companies in the world got to their positions primarily because they were able (and willing) to adapt to change. Those that did not, never caught up or went out of business eventually. It is said that change is one of the hardest thing to accept and it looks like you are having a hard time of it!

 

[pilotyip]

How about all the metal being bent right now by the under 60 guys?

 

[XJTAv8r]

How about all the metal being bent right now by the under 60 guys?

All the more reason to get them outta here when they turn 60!

 

[Andy]

How about all the metal being bent right now by the under 60 guys?

I'd be careful with that one, yip. There's a downward trend at the younger ages that flatlines in the 30s until 55. At 55, the trend moves upward.

If you suggest not allowing anyone under a certain age to fly, you will get the same result at a later entry age. Now, if the trend shows upward between 55 & 59, where would you reasonably extrapolate the continuance of that line from 60-64?

 

[pilotyip]

Andy what are we comparing all 121 pilots?, all pilots? what are we comparing?

 

[Andy]

Andy what are we comparing all 121 pilots?, all pilots? what are we comparing?

121 and 135 pilots. You mean to tell me that I've posted links to the CAMI reports here at LEAST a dozen times and you haven't even bothered to read them yet? Wow, no wonder why you can claim that this isn't a safety issue; if you don't read the FAA reports that prove that this is a safety issue, the data doesn't exist, right?