Age 60 informal poll

[Freight Dog]

Well bud, that question is why the FAA hasn't raised the retirement age before. Apparently, they're not convinced that checkrides and medical are enough. I agree.

Throw in cognitive and mental abilities testing for anyone above age 45 or 50, and you might have a better case.

Your poor financial planning is not my emergency.

 

[Flybynite]

Well bud, the question

Well bud, the answer

 

[Freight Dog]

.....

 

[Flopgut]

Hey Prussian: This will be post 1310 on an 88 page thread, Undaunted has carried on like an aloof and pompous goofball the entire time. Andy has been furloughed for a very long time and isn't saying anything untrue or inappropriate, you think you can cut him a break?

 

[Flopgut]

I've written this before: This is like the NFL. THe hardest thing to do is get in the game. You might be a good player and be able to contribute, but if you don't get a chance on the field, you'll never break out. Tony Romo was content to work backup, learn the system and the offense. He's now a top rated QB, the team is doing well, and they can't line up mechandising fast enough for him. He got a shot, if the league was seniority based, he would not have. If Andy could directly replace Undaunted, he might prove to be a better heavy captain, and UAL might be better off. DOH makes you better off, but doesn't guarantee you're better.

 

[Andy]

Andy...You can debate the issues all you want...but I've never heard UF personally deride you, call you names, or wish ill upon you. He debates the issues staying above the belt, and conducts himself as a gentleman on this board IMO. If you're furloughed, he's not the one whose kept you out of a job (he's been in his 50's throughout this exchange)...it's your management that's made some pretty big missteps...and your union is not without blame in this either. You're the one who's sounding like a pompous idiot.

While UF appears to be a class act, you and FD appear to be in class envy....if not class idiots.

Prussian, the only difference between my insults and UF's insults is that I cut through the BS and post them straight up. No subtlties. UF, on the other hand, posts flamebait. You think that flamebait is honorable? Wow, I guess if I post negative statements about old geezers in general rather than specific, I too will be a gentleman.
(pause to allow our senior pilots to run and change their Depends undergarments).
None of us are irreplacable. Not you, not me, not the great UF. And our replacements will do the job at least as well as we did.

As for entirely blaming management for my extended furlough, that's BS. I blame radical muslims first. Management has some blame, but so do the pilots who remained on property at UAL. The pilots opted to gut the work rules so that UAL now needs ~20% less pilots to fly the same block hours. And I won't even try to assess how much longer was added to my furlough due to the 70 seat giveaway. There's plenty of blame to go around for my length of furlough; management isn't the only culprit.

I've barely posted on here since the elections so as not to rub it into the faces of Klako and UF. The simple fact is that the rule is NOT going to change any time soon, no matter how much you or they wish that it does.

To push for this change while so many pilots are on furlough is truly dishonorable. If you consider that to be an act of a gentleman, your moral compass is askew.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

UF, you are truly an idiot savant. A furloughee will replace your pompous azz in the cockpit. I have a 22 Jan recall class; just 7 days before you're put out to pasture. I will go on mil leave, but I know that all of the pilots on the UAL seniority list below me are well qualified.
Here's how it's going to go with your replacement. A 767 Captain will bid up to 777 Capt and replace you. Three cheers! A 737/320 Captain will bid up to 767 Cap. A 777/400 FO will bid up to 737/320Capt. A 767 FO will bid up to 777/400 FO. A 737/320Fo will bid up to 767 FO. A furloughee will be recalled to fill the 737/320 FO vacancy. And your azz will be, thankfully, retired. 29 Jan. Let's count the days. Less than 65.

I'm amazed that you or any other idiot thinks that the rule is going to change any time soon.

Andy: You certainly seem very high on your horse.

Now do you or does anyone really think that I don't know the promotion schedule of the replacements when a sr. captain retires? And of course when I said that my replacement comes on the bottom of the pile as an RJ F/O I was speaking in the most basic terms of where a new person starts in the chain. I am surprised it has taken me three postings to clarify this to those who wanted to take exception to that post.

Now regarding your suggestion that the age 60 rule change is a long way off, that is just not correct. It will either be done through this congress or possibly early in the next or maybe not at all in congress. In that case the FAA will make the change. And contrary to their usual rule making process requiring several years, this change is moving at a very fast speed. The change by the FAA alone will be in months, not years. It may even be in time for me, but it does not look promising for me at this time.

 

[The Prussian]

I've written this before: This is like the NFL. THe hardest thing to do is get in the game. You might be a good player and be able to contribute, but if you don't get a chance on the field, you'll never break out. Tony Romo was content to work backup, learn the system and the offense. He's now a top rated QB, the team is doing well, and they can't line up mechandising fast enough for him. He got a shot, if the league was seniority based, he would not have. If Andy could directly replace Undaunted, he might prove to be a better heavy captain, and UAL might be better off. DOH makes you better off, but doesn't guarantee you're better.

Flopgut...sounds to me like you've got more of a beef with the seniority system than anything else.

 

[The Prussian]

Prussian... I'm sorry, but when the man says his coworkers at UAL are not experienced enough to replace him, that man is spitting in the face of every UAL pilot out there that's below him on the seniority list, from the freshly recalled A320 FO to the seniormost 767 captain, then in the same post proceeds to use various accidents and attributes them to "inexperience" despite the official probable causes. Not only did he lose his credibility with that crap, but the whole post was insulting and offensive even though he didn't call anyone names.

If you failed to notice that, regardless of which side of the argument you're on, your cognitive and mental abilities should be challenged.

Freight Dog... I'm sorry, but you kinda lost me on your "Captain this, Captain that" tirade.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut...sounds to me like you've got more of a beef with the seniority system than anything else.

YUP! In the context of granting super seniority by simply changing the retirement age (functions JUST LIKE replacement workers), and the fact that change proponents want to be like ICAO carrirers, I think a change in the retirement age is a good time to throw out seniority.

Previous employment endeavors have shown me that, sans seniority, old people can't cut it. Old guys working other professional jobs don't make the preposterous claims senior pilots do because coworkers can, and will, take what they got. Unless they're really "that good", which is maybe 1 in 100; WAY off for pilots. Every old pilot thinks they're greatest. I'd love to see where some of these senior pilots would end up if we could somehow scale the real talents of all pilots in one big bid!

BTW, I'm not trying to suggest something of my own talents. Years and years of working within rank of some real locos has caused me to withdraw enthusiasm. I was better at one time.

 

[Flopgut]

Andy: You certainly seem very high on your horse.

Now do you or does anyone really think that I don't know the promotion schedule of the replacements when a sr. captain retires?

I don't think you understand it. You made a strong claim that the world will be less safe without your experience in the cockpit. Like you're a superhero or something! The system works, it worked when you upgraded, it will work when you leave. In fact, the pilot slightly junior to you who will go to HNL and eat at Chucks when you leave, might fly a smoother trip than you and be more enjoyable to dine with.

 

[Flopgut]

Andy: You certainly seem very high on your horse.

Another question: He's been furloughed a long time, do you think he should be "down and out" longer? Are you one of those guys who's ego can't tolerate the slightest assertion from a subordinate?

 

[two(2)%]

Undaunted:

When that day of reckoning arrives and you are suddenly unwelcome in the pointy-end of your H.M.S. Mainliner, will you resent those immediately younger than you who will benefit from this age change? Maybe your UAL neighbor at the fly-in community slightly fair of age will continue to enjoy his company sponsored purgatory and upgrade his outdated hangar while you struggle with the pitts annuals. Hopefully you will post here even when you're not in the game just to let us know how you are. After all, this is mostly about the principle of the whole stupid rule, isn't it?

 

[KCPilot]

Undaunted and all the other 50+ guys. I have a question. If the law is passed once you hit 65 years old are you going to say that it’s age discrimination again? What is the right age to quit flying professionally as an airline pilot? You guys are the experts after all, right? I’m asking because I’m getting tired of this BS I hear on this thread! I’m just a young guy here at a mire 34+ and you older guys know everything there is so please enlighten me what the future airline pilot should fly till? Looking at what the current retiring generation is saying (you), we should shoot for 70 or maybe 75+ (since we are all in good health) so we can fly for a major for 30 maybe 40 years and collect a REALLY good retirement. That is what it’s all about, right? Or is it the love of flying and safety you are selling the FAA, right? But in the end you’ll pass away so the airline does not have to pay the retirement out! Good for them, bad for us.

Bottom line is you older, senior guys like to work 5-10 days a month for 175K+ a year for not doing much work. You fly one trip and sleep for most of it, right! This way you can afford your 3 houses, 2 ex hag flt attended wives and boat in your retirement! Or you are making up for lost money? Hitting any sore spots yet? God I hope so!!! You guys in your 50’s want more (talk about the ME generation) and are going to make the rest of us work in an office until we have a heart attack and can’t fly for an airline, I’d like to thank you for that. Thanks for the dream Baby Boomer Pilot. Maybe we should make a beer commercial about this!

So a word of advice from the Gen X/Y Me Gen, etc- RETIRE and get what is your now to enjoy it why you can you old farts!!!! Otherwise you will be jerking the gear for a guy younger than you and be pissed off you are not in the left seat and making everyone else’s life miserable cause you can’t do your job. Face up to it, it’s time to time and enjoy the good life if you know what that is!

 

[pilotyip]

KCpilot has a great point there should be no mandatory retirement age, good going