Age 60 informal poll

[UndauntedFlyer]

The facts are that there is no more evidence for or against changing the age-60 rule from a safety point of view. For every study that says one thing there is another study that says the opposite. FAA Administrator Blakey even made this statement on her recorded (on video) reply to a question at the EAA's Sun'N Fun Convention.

Many members of this Board post this and that survey and quote this and that expert, all of which become confusing to the general public, so things need to be simplified for the public to better understand and have an opinion. Well it has been simplified, it’s the ICAO change and it can not get any easier or simpler than that for people to understand. Now the issue can be understood by all. It’s double discrimination: Against Americans and discrimination against seniors by young people.

Therefore the only discussion now is on the ICAO implementation scheduled for November 23. That will happen without further discussion of fact. The FAA has said it will happen. So what more can be discussed, nothing.

No one believes that foreigners are healthier than Americans and yet they will be flying into all of our countries airports in the same airplanes and on the same airways. Politically this will not fly so changes must be made. Pressure is building as the media is picking up on this story. The media is looking at the unkind comments being made by young people on this issue, many of which are found on this Board. The media is also picking up on and making a point of the flip flops of ALPA as that organization has tried to attract younger pilots, only at the expense of getting rid of the experienced Captain who is in excellent health. For anyone to support these young people who feel they have an entitlement to a senior pilot’s seat is now politically incorrect. Such a position is being abandoned by every politician and even the FAA.

Beating up on senior citizens doesn't go over anywhere and the newspapers are beginning to have a field day with those who choose to discriminate against senior captains. Just consider the Chicago Tribune, one of the most respected pagers in the country and the 4th largest, ran a feature news story above the front page fold just a few weeks ago, and that story was picked up and run by hundreds of other papers across the USA.

Trust me. Change is coming to the USA on the age 60 issue. My guess it that it will be November 23. 2006.

 

[Phaedrus]

I don't know what is more irritating.
Klako and Undaunted's Swiss Alps echos,
or the cut and paste routine that makes
me have to move my page left to right
to read this ridiculous thread.
I know, I know, I'm a "cut-and-pastist".

 

[Andy]

It looks like Sen Stevens stuffed S. 65 into HR 5576, the DOT's appropriations bill in section 114. It's an amendment that was added in Senate appropriations subcommittee. It can be pulled if a Senator stops it on the floor, but the resistance has been minimal thus far. If the Senate passes HR 5576, it goes back to the House to hammer out the differences. Section 114 can also be pulled at that point, but subcommittees often do some strange things.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

The resistance has been minimal thus far.

See UndauntedFlyer's post above for reasons why.

 

[Phaedrus]

See UndauntedFlyer's post above for reasons why.

Okay, but only if you quit referring to yourself in the third person. Who are you? Bob Dole?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

"A house divided against itself can not stand" It must become all of one thing or all of the other.

Is there a person on this board who believes that this country will stay divided on the age 60 rule for ever while the rest of the world's ICAO carriers continue to fly throughout American with a different retirement age rule? I think not.

So when will the FAA rule change to harmonize with the rest of the world?

My guess is November 23, 2006.

What is yours?

 

[Phaedrus]

My guess is I don't don't care what your guess is.
"A house divided cannot stand". Please apply this cliche, in specific detail, to this situation. Otherwise it is simply a passe cliche. Enough French for today.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

June 16, 1858 - Springfield, IL - Abraham Lincoln

Mr. President and Gentlemen of the Convention.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."
I believe this government cannot endure, permanently half of one mind and half of another.
I do not expect the Union to be dissolved -- I do not expect the house to fall -- but I do expect it will cease to be divided. It will become all one thing or all the other.

The aviation community is divided on the age-60 rule. This can not continue with the upcoming discrimination against Americans starting November 23. Add to this the loss of pensions that brings forth important retirement issues. Agitation on this issue has continued for years and is now coming to a head over the ICAO change. Change will come soon. Does anyone doubt this?

As it says in the bible, "A house divided against itself can not stand."

 

[Jonny Sacko]

EXCELLENT, CHANGE IS COMING!! YOU CAN STAY PAST 60, until 80, but it will be in the right seat at starting wages! There, now you won't ******************** me anylonger. I didn't steal your retirement. NOR WILL LET ANYONE STEAL MINE!

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

EXCELLENT, CHANGE IS COMING!! YOU CAN STAY PAST 60, until 80, but it will be in the right seat at starting wages! There, now you won't ******************** me anylonger. I didn't steal your retirement. NOR WILL LET ANYONE STEAL MINE!

Is there a point to this comment?

We are all just along for the ride in this career. And like the market it goes up and down. None of us have much more control over the ride than we do the market.

 

[Flybynite]

EXCELLENT, CHANGE IS COMING!! YOU CAN STAY PAST 60, until 80, but it will be in the right seat at starting wages! There, now you won't ******************** me anylonger. I didn't steal your retirement. NOR WILL LET ANYONE STEAL MINE!

Jocko, everything can't be about you. Everything is about me, me, me.

 

[Phaedrus]

Undaunted, false analogy. Try again.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Undaunted, false analogy. Try again.

Do we need another Civil War to prove this or what?

I just want to take all you FI members to my 60 birthday party in HNL. It's going to be a big celebration. I love you all.

UndauntedFlyer

 

[Flopgut]

Undaunted: Are you UAL? You act like it.

A house divided? Well, how do you propose we UN divide the house? You're the expert, you love us all?! Do we un-divide it now so people can work to 65, and then be asked to UN divide it AGAIN so pilots like you can work to 68 or 70? UN-divide the house when UAL pilots ruined the careers of the original Frontier guys, or when UAL guys want to staple America West? You're all about DIVIDING the house! If we had never had the first guy like you, we would have never had the second! I tell you what, I'll go to your party if you agree to show at a party at the house of a furloughed pilots' family. Maybe a child's b-day or Christmas, we'll see how you like that celebration.

Problem might be seniority. I've spoke of changing the system previously and I don't want to go into that any further per say; But consider this: Undaunted, Klako, and the like, probably would not have the job they have now if we had rostering and assignments. Pilots/individuals who have ended up with the desparate position of needing to steal away another's time in this career wouldn't fare too well in a heads up "fight" for the job. Quality individuals take care of themselves and prepare, and aren't afraid to work. Weak ones are always weak and the first ones to beg something extra or steal something from another.

Give these guys five more years now, 90% of them will right back for more.

 

[Phaedrus]

Another Civil War? That is misdirection. Again, your cliche doesn't apply and your analogy was erroneous. We don't need a "Civil War", but we do need a little reason.