Age 60 informal poll

[Whistlin' Dan]

Let's all just be honest with one another and tell it like it is. It's not about age discrimination, it's about $$$.

On that we agree. This is about money. Not discrimination. Not safety. And certainly not about "tradition."

Half of "us" would like to see the other half of "us" forced out of our jobs, so that the half of "us" that still have jobs will have better jobs.

My dad always said that airline pilots would never have an effective union, because they didn't understand the concept of "brotherhood," at least in the sense that mine and steelworkers had it. At the time, I thought he was full of $hit.

That was before the pilots at one Legacy carrier accepted a two-tiered pay structure...before they later "stapled" an entire workforce to their seniority list, so they could furlough them en masse. That was before Continental, before Eastern, before all the shenanigans over RJ's and the guys who fly them. That was before the concessionary agreements that were signed by virtually every pilot group at every airline in bankruptcy, in which not one dollar per crewmember per hour was offered to keep some semblance of a pension intact for the guys who had spent 35 years building the airline.

The old boy was right. As a group, we're nothing but self-serving sharks...

 

[FoxHunter]

Slight correction.

ICAO will go to 65 for ONE pilot in the cockpit in November. What if I'm a 61 year old FO and my Captain is also 61. I don't get to fly that trip. THAT IS DICRIMINATION!
Gup

ICAO/JAA/S.65 One pilot must be under age 60, all others in the crew must be under age 65.

 

[Klako]

Half of "us" would like to see the other half of "us" forced out of our jobs, so that the half of "us" that still have jobs will have better jobs.........
we're nothing but self-serving sharks...

If this is the case then here is the equitable solution for those out there who fear that that a change to the age 60 rule would be unfair to them by slowing upgrades and causing seniority list stagnation. Instead why not then make it mandatory for all pilots to retire after serving no more than 20 years with a company or age 65 whichever comes first. If you hire on with a company at age 25, then you are kicked out of the cockpit when you turn age 45 or if you hire on at 45, you retire at 65. That would be equally fair for all, no age discrimination, and give everyone just enough time to build their 401K to a level that they can retire on. Fair is Fair, right?(I posted this once before)

 

[NoJoy]

Gup you are right on. It's about the $ only. 10 years ago, majority of the same pilots saying-or yelling- that the age 60 rule is discrimination were wistling a different tune. Like when can I get off reserve, make CA, ect. Besides most pilots should know better and plan for their retirement independantely, minus pension or Social Security. Relying on only one plan, instead of many isn't a good idea-as we all know now. Take care.

 

[3BCat]

Why don't you become an air traffic controller? Oh, that's right, you have to be younger than 31 to start, with a mandatory retirement age of 56...How about serving your community as a policeman or fireman? Retirement at 55 there too?

City, State and Federal retirements go with those mandatory early outs. Where's ours?

 

[Sluggo_63]

City, State and Federal retirements go with those mandatory early outs. Where's ours?

I realize they all have retirements. So do most pilots. It may not be as much as they thought, but they have one nonetheless.

Either way. This was in response to a post citing 'age discrimination' as a reason to abolish the age 60 rule. Just because someone gets paid, doesn't make it any less discriminatory.

 

[Phaedrus]

Again, discrimination schmiscrimination. If you want to play that tune then offer up an age that isn't "discriminatory". A great philosopher once said, "Know thyself". It ain't discrimination that's got your panties in a wad.

 

[Flopgut]

“Know thyself, know thy enemy”, Gen Shun Tzu author of The Art Of War, a 2000+ year old battlefield manual still popular in management studies today. The manual instructs that on “death ground” (imminent defeat) “steal something from your enemy that is precious to them”. (I suppose an airline pilot who is, for whatever reason, unprepared to retire and approaching 60 might feel like this). An age change proponent would be stealing something precious from his enemy when he steals the seniority of those junior to him for sure.
Normally you don’t lose a “battle” with superior numbers and a valid cause. But, in this case defeat might be forced on us. So, let’s stick to the manual. It will then be our turn to steal something precious from our enemy. I propose a Z scale to our CBAs. Age 60+ wages will diminish. Maybe max pay of 50K, that can only be used for health care and retirement savings for instance. How’s that sound?

 

[3BCat]

Again, discrimination schmiscrimination. If you want to play that tune then offer up an age that isn't "discriminatory". A great philosopher once said, "Know thyself". It ain't discrimination that's got your panties in a wad.

Hi Phaedrus. No age limit - No discrimination.

 

[Klako]

“Know thyself, know thy enemy”, Gen Shun Tzu author of The Art Of War, a 2000+ year old battlefield manual still popular in management studies today. The manual instructs that on “death ground” (imminent defeat) “steal something from your enemy that is precious to them”. (I suppose an airline pilot who is, for whatever reason, unprepared to retire and approaching 60 might feel like this). An age change proponent would be stealing something precious from his enemy when he steals the seniority of those junior to him for sure.
Normally you don’t lose a “battle” with superior numbers and a valid cause. But, in this case defeat might be forced on us. So, let’s stick to the manual. It will then be our turn to steal something precious from our enemy. I propose a Z scale to our CBAs. Age 60+ wages will diminish. Maybe max pay of 50K, that can only be used for health care and retirement savings for instance. How’s that sound?

“steals the seniority of those junior to him” That is the biggest bunch of bull that I have read yet on this thread. This of course, is the typical junior ALPA/APA attitude. You junior ALPA/APA twerps who think that the left seat is your birth right had better get used to the fact that the mandatory retirement will likely change to 65 within a year.
The only stealing going on has been the junior pilots stealing the left seat from the pilots who have earned that position and for all the rights of decency and fairness they should be allowed to keep it past age 60 if they should choose.
I had one of those obnoxious, arrogant young ALPA guys in my jump seat today spouting his disdain for the “old farts stagnating the seniority list”. He obviously did not have a clue that I turn 60 this year. I almost told him to take off his offensive ALPA pin before he could ride in my cockpit.