Age 60 informal poll

[UndauntedFlyer]

Flopgut: You're the greatest. We've all been A-holes to a degree on this issue. It will be nice when the age 60 issue is over as it may soon be, so all ALPA members can be united, hopefully all moving toward common goals.

With malice toward none.

I hope you and Andy are coming to my 60th. All FI members are invited too.

Flt 1 1/27....

 

[Andy]

I was only on the property for 11 months before I was furloughed, and I got about $5000. How long have you been there?

He was hired on 15 May 69.

I did some very rough calculations based on the formulas posted on alpa.org. These are very much low side numbers; Undaunted almost certainly received more than what I post here.
$125+K in stock allocation
$250+K in bond allocation

Those figures do not include the additional C fund contributions that he is receiving, nor does it account for the PBGC pension that he will receive; as long as the Akaka amendment remains intact on HR 2830, he'll be getting around $50K/yr.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

Andy: Just to set the FI board members straight, you have been offered recall at UAL and rejected it, like about half the furloughees have been doing. Right? And that would mean that you and the others have something better going. Right?

So we should all feel sorry for you?

Changes in age 60 will give you more time to work at your preferred job, on your next promotion or maybe even present you with an opportunity to reach the stars. Maybe the change will be the best thing that ever happened to you. I know a smart guy like you that was furloughed for 7-years. He went to law school, got started in patent law, came back when recalled and then retired from his airline job 5 years ago. He now makes about $5 million a year.

 

[Klako]

Heck No get out of my seat.

For all who cannot see the harm done by the age 60 rule, consider comparing the age 60 rule and the “me now attitude” of junior pilots to that of first time home buyers. Young couples trying to purchase their first house complain that it is unfair that young people suffer unfairly because old people are holding on to and enjoying nice homes and driving up the price of homes at the expense of young first time home buyers. In frustration that they can not afford to buy the house they want, I overheard one young couple very seriously say that there should be a law that forces everyone to forfit ownership and equity in their house to the government automatically on their 60th birthday and the government would then deed that house to some young person.

The government now unjustly robs senior airline pilots of their profession, so in the future can we expect the government to rob elders of other rights and their property as well?

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

For all who cannot see the harm done by the age 60 rule, consider comparing the age 60 rule and the “me now attitude” of junior pilots to that of first time home buyers. Young couples trying to purchase their first house complain that it is unfair that young people suffer unfairly because old people are holding on to and enjoying nice homes and driving up the price of homes at the expense of young first time home buyers. In frustration that they can not afford to buy the house they want, I overheard one young couple very seriously say that there should be a law that forces everyone to forfit ownership and equity in their house to the government automatically on their 60th birthday and the government would then deed that house to some young person.

The government now unjustly robs senior airline pilots of their profession, so in the future can we expect the government to rob elders of other rights and their property as well?

Another great post by Klako. A good analogy. Listen to this man, he's earned his stripes the hard way. No one has a right to steal what he's earned. His house or his job.

 

[Andy]

Dang; I knew that I should have gone for my lowball estimates of $140+K for stock allocation and $300+K for bond allocation.
If either of the numbers had been high by even a penny, you would've 'corrected' me. However, since you got paid more than $125K + $250K, you've chosen to change the subject rather than answer the question. AGAIN.

Andy: Just to set the FI board members straight, you have been offered recall at UAL and rejected it, like about half the furloughees have been doing. Right? And that would mean that you and the others have something better going. Right?

So we should all feel sorry for you?

Changes in age 60 will give you more time to work at your preferred job, on your next promotion or maybe even present you with an opportunity to reach the stars. Maybe the change will be the best thing that ever happened to you. I know a smart guy like you that was furloughed for 7-years. He went to law school, got started in patent law, came back when recalled and then retired from his airline job 5 years ago. He now makes about $5 million a year.

I was offered recall into the Sep class. I'm seniority #8004. I opted to bypass for several reasons, the largest of which is to be more senior in a later recall class. I don't want to go to a 737 or A320 because those on property gave away all of the work rules on those aircraft. Last month, I tried to accept recall to the Dec class, but it was already full. I would've been below #7 in the Jan class (with no shot at a 767), so I told the recall coordinator that I would take recall in the Feb class. I'm hoping for a 767 so that I don't have to live under the heinous LCO work rules. I will take military leave of absence until spring 2009.

Do I expect anyone to feel sorry for me? No; I've never asked for sympathy by publically stating that I can't afford to send my kids to college. I've saved money so that I can send them. I don't ask for anyone to feel sorry for me, but I sure don't like seeing safety being compromised and have fellow furloughees get skrewed over by changing the age limit.

$5 million a year? Do you think that I serve in the military merely for a paycheck? I don't know anyone who is in the military to get rich. Do you really think that my life is driven by money?

 

[Phaedrus]

Klako, you're total inability to grasp even the most shallow aspects of logic astound me. Undaunted, patting him on the back for his just-shy-of-idiotic analogies and logic is a disservice.

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

$125K + $250K, you've chosen to change the subject rather than answer the question. AGAIN.

OK. If you really want a response, the stock number is many times too high and the bond number just a little too high. Only the junior guys made out on the stock deal.

But the important qustion is whether you and Flopgut are coming to my 60th at Chuck's. If you can't make the one in HNL, I'm going to have a second party in the ORD employee cafateria on the 29th. We will be serving meatloaf and beans with ice tea. I think the HNL Mai Tai party will be much better.

 

[Sluggo_63]

For all who cannot see the harm done by the age 60 rule, consider comparing the age 60 rule and the “me now attitude” of junior pilots to that of first time home buyers. Young couples trying to purchase their first house complain that it is unfair that young people suffer unfairly because old people are holding on to and enjoying nice homes and driving up the price of homes at the expense of young first time home buyers. In frustration that they can not afford to buy the house they want, I overheard one young couple very seriously say that there should be a law that forces everyone to forfit ownership and equity in their house to the government automatically on their 60th birthday and the government would then deed that house to some young person.

The government now unjustly robs senior airline pilots of their profession, so in the future can we expect the government to rob elders of other rights and their property as well?

This is the most asinine analogy I've seen to date. And it's the second time you've posted it.

Ridiculous...

 

[Klako]

Klako, you're total inability to grasp even the most shallow aspects of logic astound me. Undaunted, patting him on the back for his just-shy-of-idiotic analogies and logic is a disservice.

My analogy is not perfect but if you fail to get the point then you have just admitted to yourself and everyone else that you are a part of the problem.

ALPA President Henry Duffy’s made this statement in the 1990 Baker v FAA “It has never been my belief that professional expertise diminishes at age 60, on the contrary, our senior members possess a wealth of knowledge, aviation history, and insight that have been developed through their years of experience, which are irreplaceable”. He also stated during this testimony “Pilots over 55 comprise 5-6% of the total membership. The other 95% selfishly view the forced retirement of older pilots as their guaranteed path and a God given right to their promotions!”