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ADVICE!! Eagle vs. AWAC

  • Thread starter Thread starter need2AV8
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I don't know much about AWAC, other than they supposedly pay pretty well.

I have been at Eagle for several years. The people that work here and the friends I've made are probably the strongest reason for my staying.
Our remaining jet orders will be Captained by flowbacks. So, there will be no movement or negative movement backwards on the list.
 
jetexas said:
I don't know much about AWAC, other than they supposedly pay pretty well.

I have been at Eagle for several years. The people that work here and the friends I've made are probably the strongest reason for my staying.
Our remaining jet orders will be Captained by flowbacks. So, there will be no movement or negative movement backwards on the list.[/QUOTE]

Yeah if you are senior enough!
 
BE99chick said:
AWAC has some of the nastiest, grouchiest people around. Why they are so nasty... I guess it's because of the DEN base closure, pay concessions, crappy and non-commutable schedules and just all-around crusty old guys tired of the daily grind. The 146 guys are old and tired and flat out mean. The senior CRJ DEN guys are pissed off because they have to commute. All around an ugly situation for an FO just trying to do his job.
The DEN crews used to complain about almost everything even when DEN was open so no real change there (must be the lack of O2 up there) and the 146 guys still feel shafted by UAL from the early 90's.

As someone else said, if the Capt you are flying with goes on about life, the world and his woes tell him to shut the fork up, build a bridge and get over it!

Still you have yet to fly with me and I only complain about the overnights being too short :D
 
AWAC has some of the nastiest, grouchiest people around. Why they are so nasty... I guess it's because of the DEN base closure, pay concessions, crappy and non-commutable schedules and just all-around crusty old guys tired of the daily grind. The 146 guys are old and tired and flat out mean. The senior CRJ DEN guys are pissed off because they have to commute. All around an ugly situation for an FO just trying to do his job.
I disagree with this. in the 2+ years i have been here i have only flown with a couple guys i didnt care for. i have never flown with a captain that has been outright nasty and grouchy. most of the guys are nice and are tolerable to fly with if they are not totally cool. we all bitch a lot of the time, but given the state of the industry, we all deserve to vent and let off a bit of steam once in a while. and the guys that truly are that bitter are quiting, either finding other flying jobs or getting out altogether.

just like everyone else i have my gripes with the company. probably the biggest one would be the super tight control that scheduling has over the pilots. its almost impossible to anything to alter your schedule, wheter it be drop a turn on the last day or pick up part of a trip thats in open time. everytime you try to drop a trip, its always denied to "lack of reserve coverage", even though you know there are 10 other guys sitting reserve. we use FLICA to do our bids and schedules. however, its use is extremely limited and the data is not real time. also, if you want access outside of work, you have to pay for it yourself which blows.

my other gripe is some of the crap hotels we stay at. we layover in some awesome cities, yet we stay in the middle of nowhere in many cases. for instance, in savannah, GA we stay about 15-20 minutes from the river area downtown. it would be nice if we could stay somewhere near downtown, especially when you have a 18 hour layover. it sucks to pay $15 for a cab everytime you want to go downtown. Madison, WI and new orleans are among a few others.

having said that, AWAC is still a decent place to work. yes we took concessions which everyone is still bitter about and will be for atleast another 6 years and 328 days, but the pay is still decent because we still have decent work rules. we get weather/cancellation pay, full deadhead, and the greater of 1) 1 hr pay /2 hrs duty, 2)1 hr pay / 4 trip hours, 3) 3 hour min day, 4) scheduled flight time, or 5) actual flight time.

as far as the schedules go, im relatively senior now and dont commute, so i cant gripe about the schedules. i get 15-17 days off per month and have all weekends off. i know a lot of guys were displaced from denver and are entitled to bitch, but there are those that choose to commute and still bitch. me personally, id rather be a senior fo living in base than be a junior captain in dulles and commute, which many people choose to do.

anyway, hope this info is helpful to you.:cool:
 
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From what I understand, Eagle is a great place to learn to hate your job and life in general... pleanty of miserable company too. I have yet to meet a person holding any position in the ranks in the AMR organization that enjoys going to work on a daily baisis. I think even the bloodiest red, white, and blue folks are getting fedup with the East Texas mofia.

Run like hell!
 
MattP said:
From what I understand, Eagle is a great place to learn to hate your job and life in general... pleanty of miserable company too. I have yet to meet a person holding any position in the ranks in the AMR organization that enjoys going to work on a daily baisis. I think even the bloodiest red, white, and blue folks are getting fedup with the East Texas mofia.

Run like hell!

You just "cybermet" one who does enjoy working here.

I've worked for AMR for 5 years and have yet to not enjoy coming to work.

I do understand all the negativity. Furloughs, concessions, Rule 32, APA, etc etc. It's hard to feel like anything other than a number. But all of my buds who work for the other legacy airlines (and a few LCCs) say the same things.

I love being an MD80 F/O. I love flying around the system. The closer I get to furlough (in a couple of months) the more I realize just how much I enjoy the job I do.

The "red white and blue Mafia" has consistently provided a decet paycheck month after month - albeit a declining one in the last year. My chief pilots have always been courteous and have given me time off when I needed it. The captains and FAs I fly with have always been professional and (for the most part) a pleasure to work with. The 80s, as they become dinosaurs, are maintained very well. It's been a blast.

It can be the best job in the world if you let it. It can also be the worst job in the world if you let it.

I'll come back and work here in a cinch if and when I'm recalled.

Regards, bro's and sis's
aa73
 
I wouldn't worry to much about the Captains being nasty here. I think the above posters may have just gotten a few bad ones lately. Most of us try to be pleasant to work with and don't take our (many) frustrations out on fellow crewmembers. The commute from DEN is taking its toll on FOs and Cpts alike, people are exhausted and burnt out, and slam-clicking (even for me) is at unprecidented levels.
I flew the 146 as an FO in DEN and 9/10 captains were nice, laid-back, and great people to learn from as they are very experienced.

I've noticed most of our new hotels are shared by numerous other crews, including some major airline crews, so the poor hotels are probably more a product of the higher prices on the East Coast.

I'd say the #1 gripe right now are the poor skeds, especially in IAD. If you don't want to live in ORD or IAD (why would anyone want to live there?) then that may be a major factor in your decision, as the AWAC commuter life is not currently an easy one.

Another gripe is the lack of growth. I don't see us ordering any more airplanes until UAL comes out of BK, as our owners don't like to gamble.
I think UAL will want more 70 (or even 90) seaters in the future, and we very well may be the ones to operate them.
 
AWAC is Air Wisconsin Airlines Corporation.

And to Need2AV8, the starter of this post...

Your post caused me to do a lot of personal introspection in the last day or so. I've worked at both companies, and looking at it now, knowing what I know, if I had your decision to make, I would most certainly recommend Wisconsin over Eagle.

I look back at Eagle lovingly because I miss the people, not because I miss the airline. It was a tough place to work, the pay wasn't good and the work rules were very poor. AMR is a big machine and you are just a number there. But I sure liked the people I worked with because they were so friendly.

Wisconsin on the other hand really does have some good work rules, comparing it to Eagle. And the pay is so much better here. Yes the schedules are bad, but coming from Eagle, the schedules here are a ton better, even though they are working us like dogs right now. The majors are even doing that, so no surprise there. Comparatively, the schedules here are worse than they were, but they are still better than what Eagle is offering. I keep in touch with my Eagle friends and I can tell you, they have some bad schedules. The commute is horrible and expensive, but I commuted at Eagle too, so I don't really complain about commuting. Heck, if I got a job tomorrow at Southwest, I'd still be commuting somewhere.

In terms of overall job security, I would say it's a crap shoot 50-50. UAL's troubles are well known, but AMR is getting in deep too. These are both companies with all their eggs in one basket...no diversification whatsoever.

Here's the one thing you need to realize about Eagle...you always run the risk of being based in San Juan (SJU). Even Captains sometimes have to go there if they want to keep a stripe. That's just the way it is. I have some buddies who have managed to avoid it somehow, but they are few, and most did it by going back to the right seat, or going to LGA or something.

Are you willing to commute to SJU every week? Are you willing to pick up everything and move there? If you are single, young and have no ties, I suppose it could be fun, but it's a different world there. Some people like it, most hate it. The schedules are 20 times worse than those in the states, the overnights are VERY short so don't think you can party like a rock star on some exotic island every night. It's expensive too and if you hate cockroaches...well, that's the tropics. It sounds nice and looks good in the pictures, but it's not.

Sure, I had a blast at Eagle and it was fun, but I was going nowhere fast. I'm serious about an airline career and Air Wisconsin is a good, solid company. They got small once before because of UAL (ask any mean old 146 guy) and they may get small again (I hope not). However, their conservativism will allow them to survive even if UAL tanks.

Bottom line...you can make a living at Air Wisconsin. I do.

Hope that helps. Best of luck.
 
Mayday911 said:
That guy leaving AWAC soon...whats your seniority #?
Are you just curious or just another self absorbed pilot that wants to know how it will affect you? If you're curious....my reasons for moving on have nothing to do with AWAC and everything to do with airline flying in general. They are the best regional airline to work for in my opinion and I enjoy most of the people most of the time. I simply don't see much of a future in the airline pilot business and am working toward another career path that provides a better life. I'm still going to fly once in a while for fun.

If you are worried about how it will affect you....please don't waste your time on petty issues like that. It just won't make that much difference to you one way or the other.
 
Fantastic info.

Beer & Brauts, I noticed you said the commuter life sucked. I had heard they have a great commuter clause - allowing you to list for 2 flights and if they are delayed or cancelled, then you're excused. Perhaps someone out there could confirm or deny. Were you referring to commuter life in general or AWAC commuting? Please don't interpret my response as a challenge to your comment, I'm just looking to gather all the info I can.

Thanks to all.
 
White Cloud...sex, seniority, and salary. Not necessarily in that order. So either answer the question or quit preaching.
 
need2AV8 said:
Fantastic info.

Beer & Brauts, I noticed you said the commuter life sucked. I had heard they have a great commuter clause - allowing you to list for 2 flights and if they are delayed or cancelled, then you're excused. Perhaps someone out there could confirm or deny. Were you referring to commuter life in general or AWAC commuting? Please don't interpret my response as a challenge to your comment, I'm just looking to gather all the info I can.

Thanks to all.
Eagle has a 2 flight commuter clause, however, before we signed the LOA there was a large division within the union about it's usefulness. Many of us in the grievance side of the union, myself included, thought it did more harm than good. I have since left eagle and I have no idea what real life has proven about the eagle commuter clause.

As far as commuter life sucking...it's a lot more to do with schedule than any commuter clause. If you finish your last day at 2100, chances are you're sleeping at the crash pad. If you start at 0515 on the first day then you're also in the crash pad. Heaven forbid your sequence is non-commutable on both ends, you end up with one day at home a week. Eagle also has a policy of not providing hotels in domicile if you are cancelled even if the hotel rooms are already paid for and will sit empty for the night.

Later
 

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