ADVICE!! Eagle vs. AWAC

[WhiteCloud]

White Cloud...sex, seniority, and salary. Not necessarily in that order. So either answer the question or quit preaching.

1. Anytime, anywhere with selected partner(s).

2. CA

3. 65K+ overtime.

 

[Rottweiller]

Fantastic info.

Beer & Brauts, I noticed you said the commuter life sucked. I had heard they have a great commuter clause - allowing you to list for 2 flights and if they are delayed or cancelled, then you're excused. Perhaps someone out there could confirm or deny. Were you referring to commuter life in general or AWAC commuting? Please don't interpret my response as a challenge to your comment, I'm just looking to gather all the info I can.

Thanks to all.

Yes that is true and Screw Sked have even been known to get you a must ride on UAL to help out matters (read run out of reserves AGAIN).

As for the commuter, the problems mostly are that the schedules for IAD and ORD have many overnighting aircraft (IAD it's a UAL thing and ORD we now do maint there + UAL schedules). IAD involves a lot of commutes in the day before you start and you finish late so you have to leave the next day as you get in after the last flight out. So when you get 3 / 4 days between trips you end up with only a day or two at home. ORD has nearly all the displaced DEN crews and the commute to/from DEN and ORD is horendos. Calling to list on those flights you often find 30+ standby's already listed as UAL have a large commuter base between DEN and ORD.

Personally I live in the ORD burbs and thats my choice as even the drive to ORD can take it's toll on you but it is a darn sight cheaper to live here than even consider IAD (whether you rent or buy).

AWAC is a great place to be at and if needs be a career place. I can't remember the last time I ever got paid for just the min guarantee. It has a bunch of great people (there are always the odd couple of sour pusses like anywhere) but with the state of the industry right now it seems a pretty good bet.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

See ya on the corner!

You just "cybermet" one who does enjoy working here.

I've worked for AMR for 5 years and have yet to not enjoy coming to work.

I do understand all the negativity. Furloughs, concessions, Rule 32, APA, etc etc. It's hard to feel like anything other than a number. But all of my buds who work for the other legacy airlines (and a few LCCs) say the same things.

I love being an MD80 F/O. I love flying around the system. The closer I get to furlough (in a couple of months) the more I realize just how much I enjoy the job I do.

The "red white and blue Mafia" has consistently provided a decet paycheck month after month - albeit a declining one in the last year. My chief pilots have always been courteous and have given me time off when I needed it. The captains and FAs I fly with have always been professional and (for the most part) a pleasure to work with. The 80s, as they become dinosaurs, are maintained very well. It's been a blast.

It can be the best job in the world if you let it. It can also be the worst job in the world if you let it.

I'll come back and work here in a cinch if and when I'm recalled.

Regards, bro's and sis's
aa73

As a former AA, then AE, TWA, back to AA and furloghed for 2 years guy, I have seen plenty of the ups and downs of AMR and more of the same at other companies not mentioned. I have found that it comes down more to attitude and what you make of your work environment than the company itself.

AA73 has a good attitude and that is why as a TWA guy I am saving him a spot on the corner, a bwew in a bag and I have a squeegie with his name on it. CSYmon with have to find another corner until he gets a better attitude.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Stay where you are

You can look at the pros and cons of both carriers, but I suggest staying where you are. You are through IOE and have and are gainig some seniority. I wouldn't want to start over at any carrier right now or switch horses at this point, unless it were for a much better job, not a lateral move.

AWAC has had some attrition due to the DEN closures and they are hiring for IAD. The 146 is cool, but may not make economic sense for much longer in this environment. I like AWAC, but it is a lateral move and you would have to explain in a future interview why you left AE after a short stint. That doesn't look good to a recruiter and could hinder you from a much better job in the future.

 

[Beer&Brauts]

Getting to work is not the problem, for that the commuter clause is great. Give yourself 2 flights on UAL or UAX (first must arrive 2+ hours before your show, second 30 min) pretty much worry free. There is a clause that if a major snowstorm, etc is forecast you should use proper descretion.

The problem is what Rottweiller discussed. For Dec. 3/4 of my trips are early AM shows, the other is 11:45 AM. All 4 get done after 8 PM, leaving me and a number of other DEN commuters only one flight home.
Other locations aren't any better, as IAD has few late flights like say ATL. And I'm pretty senior.

So if you want to work here, the commuter life ain't easy anymore. It used to be pretty good, and will hopefully get better in the future.
We do have excellent work rules, and by regional standards this is an overall good place to work.

 

[freeflyer14]

Where do newhires end up at AWAC? Do you get to choose between IAD and ORD? Which is junior? How long has reserve been running?

 

[WhiteCloud]

Where do newhires end up at AWAC? Do you get to choose between IAD and ORD? Which is junior? How long has reserve been running?

I've heard there will be a few ATW 146 slots but most will be CRJ IAD. ORD is the more senior base. In class, the senior (by age) person selects first. The last class was not offered ORD at all. Reserve could be long depending on how many are in the Nov class. There are about 20 reserve slots at IAD. With class size small and a few months apart it could be at least several months of reserve if not longer.

 

[aa73]

As a former AA, then AE, TWA, back to AA and furloghed for 2 years guy, I have seen plenty of the ups and downs of AMR and more of the same at other companies not mentioned. I have found that it comes down more to attitude and what you make of your work environment than the company itself.

AA73 has a good attitude and that is why as a TWA guy I am saving him a spot on the corner, a bwew in a bag and I have a squeegie with his name on it. CSYmon with have to find another corner until he gets a better attitude.

Thanks Jeff, looking forward to sharing a few with youze guys.

 

[ultrarunner]

It was stated earlier on this board that Eagle would be more stable. I disagree.
After 9/11, Eagle furloughed over 300 pilots while we (illegally) had flow-backs on the property. The flow back agreement specifically prohibited that.

If the above statement is true, that pretty much puts the value of the CBA on par with the value of the paper is printed on. And the above statement REALLY speaks for the value of representation of organized labor.

When the contract REALLY matters, and REALLY needs to be enforced, it 'aint worth a $hit.

That's pretty much it.

 

[amcnd]

Eagle pilots are in a realy bad bind right now. But when and if things shift (AA starts recalling), Eagle is going to be in boom town. The only question is when? most likley 3 years.

 

[AA717driver]

Welllll.... I think aa73 is a kool-aid drinker and AMR lackey! Sorry, you had to get $h!t from a TWA guy somewhere since Hegelson didn't step up...

Be99chick--I worked at AWAC in '88 and the 146 guys were a$$holes then, too. They wouldn't even talk to us F-27 guys. You'd thing they were flying a 744 across the Pacific... I swear that's the only place I've ever worked where I liked the management and hated the pilot group.

What was the original question? Oh, yeah. Might as well stay at Eagle and get some seniority. You know they will be around. The flowbies won't be there forever(one way or another!). Good luck to all.TC

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Hands Across America....

Welllll.... I think aa73 is a kool-aid drinker and AMR lackey! Sorry, you had to get $h!t from a TWA guy somewhere since Hegelson didn't step up...

....sorry to let you down, I was watching reruns of Hands Across America while assembling models of TWA aircraft in my basement and I guess the smell of the glue must be altering my frame of mine. For a minute, I thought everything just might work out!

And it's Helgeson. If you're going to leave some flaming dog poop on somebody's doorstep, at least get the address right!

 

[FO 4 Life]

Hey Helgeson and aa73, have you shared your hug today? The thread is about AWAC and AE not AA. I know it's hard for the best pilots in the world to not talk about AA, but all that crap isn't helping this pilot decide where to go. I'm sure flying the 80 at AA is great, but it's irrelevant to this thread. The seven duece is much better then that 80 trash anyway.

Back to the thread, myself and over 30 other captains were just booted from our seat for the flowbacks. Look for the trend to continue as AE starts displacing 45/month in January. The junior captain was hired in April 99. That is until next month's bid.

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Hey, FO for Life...

You can look at the pros and cons of both carriers, but I suggest staying where you are. You are through IOE and have and are gainig some seniority. I wouldn't want to start over at any carrier right now or switch horses at this point, unless it were for a much better job, not a lateral move.

AWAC has had some attrition due to the DEN closures and they are hiring for IAD. The 146 is cool, but may not make economic sense for much longer in this environment. I like AWAC, but it is a lateral move and you would have to explain in a future interview why you left AE after a short stint. That doesn't look good to a recruiter and could hinder you from a much better job in the future.

I stated my advise from my personal experiences with AMR and the fact that I have spoken with many of the AWAC crews that used to be based in DEN, where I currently fly. The morale is or was low there due to the displacements.

I don't see where you offered any advise in your post, let's take a look.....

 

[Jeff Helgeson]

Don't hit the panic button, FO fo Life.....

Hey Helgeson and aa73, have you shared your hug today? The thread is about AWAC and AE not AA. I know it's hard for the best pilots in the world to not talk about AA, but all that crap isn't helping this pilot decide where to go. I'm sure flying the 80 at AA is great, but it's irrelevant to this thread. The seven duece is much better then that 80 trash anyway.

Back to the thread, myself and over 30 other captains were just booted from our seat for the flowbacks. Look for the trend to continue as AE starts displacing 45/month in January. The junior captain was hired in April 99. That is until next month's bid.

No hug, but if it will improves your attitude....well okay! You made a few disparaging remarks about the equipment, company and your present situation, but where is the advise?

The fact is AWAC is hiring to cover attrition, there isn't a lot of growth. AE is hiring for attrition and growth. Even if the next 18 super fantastic pride of the sky seven duece deliveries have been put on hold, AE has been the fastest growing commuter in the world in the recesnt past. The pilot asking the question is already at AE, so he has already made a choice. It is now about the value of leaving for AWAC.

Your attitude is helpful in displaying the corporate culture at AMR and some of it's problems, but there are problems at AWAC as well.

Again, I think it best to stay put. There is still growth and attrition which will help gain seniority. AE is bigger and has more bases.

Sorry for your pain FO for Life, but I am not the cause of it. I've moved on and will not be flowing back. In fact, I am helping an AE guy trying to get out of AE.

In 1996 I left AE for PDT. At the time it seemed like the thing to do, but it was a lateral move. In retrospect if I hadn't moved on to a major, I would have been better off staying at AE. I hope that helps in the decision making process.