Actually Official RAH gets 190's for Midwest

[Morning Wood]

Cheapest? How do you figue...Skwy flys the 900 for almost $10/hr less and Mesa at 9/hr less. Its not about being cheapest or one of those regionals would be doing the flying.
Also, how is 2 aircraft going to bring down our upgrade times? Why don't you just be happy that you still have a job.

Besides the fact that SkyWest does not operate, have options on , or fly a variant of one that has a 100 seat cousin. Midwest still owes SkyWest over $9 million from last year and has allegedly missed a few more recent payments. I doubt SKW is interested in doing any additional flying for Midwest.

I think what we're seeing is the slow but sure purchase of Midwest by Republic that started with the "loan" Midwest was given last September.

 

[godsgift2aviatn]

All you guys/gals on here bitching sound like a bunch of school girls! How you can blame a pilot group for an aircraft order they had no say in befuddles me. Not only that, we are 2 years into an expired contract, with ongoing negotiations. Your anger is curiously misdirected at a pilot group, when it should be focused on the managment teams of RAH & ME. The only conclusion that can be drawn is that you are either: 1. uninformed 2. A bitch, pick one.

 

[deadstick]

With these aircraft and these pay rates, how is Jetblue and Usairways supposed to negotiate their E190 rates come contract time?

FINALLY a "big picture" post.

.....didn't really hope to have a career at a regional flying a 190.

Future, what future? That light at the end of the tunnel is the landing light of a "regional" operated 195 coming right at you. Game (career) over, man.

The F/O's flying that will be the top 3 percent, you know...the ones making 37 bucks an hour so HA! Take THAT!

Hey, isn't $37/hr what Timmy H offered the down-graded CA's as a new payrate? That should give people a warm-fuzzy: "I make as much as a 717 CA makes!"

 

[FMEpilot]

put up a big new contract and maybe some people will stop bitching at RAH for flying the 190's

 

[Anonymous2]

This thread is going round and round in circles. Ok so all of you that are PMS-ing over this 190 crap. Career over and all that jazz. If you claim your career(s) are over, then what are you all waiting for? Don't let that regional 195 at the end of the tunnel hit you, move out of the way. I'm sure there's quite a few peeps out there that are ready to put on them stripes for a few bucks. Heck they might even be happy. You have to remind yourselves that times are changing right before your very eyes. It was mostly small, gradual changes. But once in a while, there's an eye opening big change. You're either changing with it or not. You do (believe it or not), have a choice. You stay, or go. Everything changes at one time or another. From hot @$$ FA's back then to big fat dudes serving you that coke, things change. From one end of the spectrum to the next. Eventually it may come full circle, but it won't stop there. It'll keep changing. You just have to try and make the best of it. Quit immaturely blaming eachother. Whether you like it not, you're all in it together. And I think that's the real big picture. Honestly, what the heck do you all want these Republic pilots to do? What....??

 

[CX880]

This thread is going round and round in circles. Ok so all of you that are PMS-ing over this 190 crap. Career over and all that jazz. If you claim your career(s) are over, then what are you all waiting for? Don't let that regional 195 at the end of the tunnel hit you, move out of the way. I'm sure there's quite a few peeps out there that are ready to put on them stripes for a few bucks. Heck they might even be happy. You have to remind yourselves that times are changing right before your very eyes. It was mostly small, gradual changes. But once in a while, there's an eye opening big change. You're either changing with it or not. You do (believe it or not), have a choice. You stay, or go. Everything changes at one time or another. From hot @$$ FA's back then to big fat dudes serving you that coke, things change. From one end of the spectrum to the next. Eventually it may come full circle, but it won't stop there. It'll keep changing. You just have to try and make the best of it. Quit immaturely blaming eachother. Whether you like it not, you're all in it together. And I think that's the real big picture. Honestly, what the heck do you all want these Republic pilots to do? What....??

................... thanks for sharing.....

 

[crj567]

This thread is going round and round in circles. Ok so all of you that are PMS-ing over this 190 crap. Career over and all that jazz. If you claim your career(s) are over, then what are you all waiting for? Don't let that regional 195 at the end of the tunnel hit you, move out of the way. I'm sure there's quite a few peeps out there that are ready to put on them stripes for a few bucks. Heck they might even be happy. You have to remind yourselves that times are changing right before your very eyes. It was mostly small, gradual changes. But once in a while, there's an eye opening big change. You're either changing with it or not. You do (believe it or not), have a choice. You stay, or go. Everything changes at one time or another. From hot @$$ FA's back then to big fat dudes serving you that coke, things change. From one end of the spectrum to the next. Eventually it may come full circle, but it won't stop there. It'll keep changing. You just have to try and make the best of it. Quit immaturely blaming eachother. Whether you like it not, you're all in it together. And I think that's the real big picture. Honestly, what the heck do you all want these Republic pilots to do? What....??

Camel's nose in the tent.....
Next thing you know, the replacements will be a bunch of Mexicans-just wait and see....

 

[Minimaniac]

I thought we already were flying mainline aircraft. Did the 170 and 175 suddenly become regional again?

 

[Minimaniac]

So, what exactly is the big deal about RAH flying 190's? Who is surprised by this?

RAH began flying the 170 almost 5 years ago now. The whole 170/175/190/195 is a common type aircraft. When US Airways bought A319's, were you shocked to then see them get A320's and A321's? Our CEO has made it known since day one that 190's are the end game. The writing has been on the wall longer than most of you have even been airline pilots.

Now, for pay. Someone earlier worried that the RAH payrates will lower the bar for JetBlue and USAirways when they renegotiate. Well, USAirways will not have a new contract for as long as the pilots continue to throw poo over the whole Nicoli award and seniority integration. The East pilots are intentionally putting off the opportunity to raise their pay and QOL because to do so would enact the binding airbitration they don't like. And, if and when they ever do stop acting like children, they will have to negotiate UP to RAH's captain pay for 99 seat aircraft (the USAirways 190's are configured for 99 seats). And, until recently, first year FO's at US Airways were making $26/hr. And they could even be on a 757/767 for that wage!!!!! Not to mention airlines like CAL that start you at $30/hr with no health care benefits...and we all know of some "lucky" co-workers at our regionals who went to CAL and got into the 757, 767, or even the 777 for that wage. JetBlue does have the best E190 pay out there. That is what happens when: A) a payscale for that particular plane in negotiated in advance of the type arriving (which RAH has not yet completed), and B) the rate is not agreed to by union pilots who all fly bigger airplanes and what to keep the money for themselves (ala US Airways).

JetBlue will not farm out flying to RAH. They contracted with ExpressJet while in an extreme pinch once, but that was on a very limited basis, and ExpressJet was willing to do anything to keep revenue coming in the door.

None of the mainline/legacy carriers will scope out the 190's. With the exception of DAL, arguable the best run legacy out there now, every major carrier has pilots on furlough. No one is going to give away 100 seat flying while there are furloughs. Even the clusterfrick known as United will hold that line. If they don't, you should be runnig with pitchforks at that pilot group.

RAH got 2 190's for an airline that will not even have its own aircraft by the end of 2010. Boeing is taking ALL of the Midwest 717's. Do you really think that Midwest sold its soul to RAH and then decided to give back 16 717's? Midwest could not afford its own fleet, and contracted with RAH because they had larger airplanes sitting around idle. Midwest was dying long before RAH came into the picture. Looking back at posts on this site, you will find plenty of evidence backing me up around the time Airtran was making a bid for Midwest. RAH did not kill Midwest or take their pilots' jobs. Those jobs were going to be lost anyway. I still don't feel good about it, and I have never flown a Midwest trip, but that is the reality. RAH will probably get more 190's for Midwest in 2010. The two announced were lease aircraft. RAH does not have any delivery slots until 2010 for E-jets, so leases will have to do until then. But, when 2010 rolls around, look for more. In 2010, Midwest will lose all of the remianing 717's. The loss of these planes caught Midwest management a bit off guard, and they had to do something to continue the brand. Why they want to continue the brand when they have evicerated it so badly to this point is beyond me. But, Midwest management wants the name to live on. With no planes to fly, and no chance of getting the capital to buy or lease anything else, they needed someone else to provide the larger lift. Enter RAH management, desperate to get 190's.

If you want to call RAH a bottom feeder, go on ahead. Personally, dealing with a messed up money pit of an airline like Midwest makes me feel like a bottom feeder. I prefer the days when we flew only for legacy carriers that could afford to pay their bills. Now, we are stuck bailing out USAirways, keeping the Miwest name alive, and being stuck with the job of killing GO! Of course, we undercut everyone else so much that we can only afford to lend out about $90 million in cash this year alone. Who else, except Skywest, is so flush with cash that they can afford to help keep mainline carriers from shutting down and furloughing hundreds more? Let me tell you, you don't get that kind of spending money from being the cheapest product out there. RAH pilots get middle of the road pay (which was a step up from bottom tier pay prior to the 2003 contract we are still operating under), but our CEO does not charge our partner airlines based on pilot pay. Bedford has long made money off of the rates he charges our minaline partners. Case in point: when bedford agreed to fly some of our 145's for a 3% reduction in compensation, he never even ASKED for the pilots to reduce their wages accordingly. Bedford has been making bank by not being the cheapest for a long time. No one knows what the reimbursement rates are, and therefore you cannot make direct comparisons. But, could MESA or Expressjet afford to take a 3% cut in reimbursement without cutting labor costs?

Over the next 2 years, you will see RAH get more 190's for midwest. Who will own Midwest is anyone's guess. You may also see a handful of 190's out in Hawaii. Bedford has said he wants to be the number 2 airline out there. Not number one. RAH is not gunning for Hawaiian. However, the 190's won't grow beyond that.

And, let's not forget that some undisclosed US regional carrier has placed orders for the CRJ 1000. RAH is not the only player. It just so happens that our planes were available first. Planes of this size have been coming to the regionals for a while now. The only difference is that tangible proof has finally arrived. So go ahead, act all surprised and angry. You can hate RAH all you want, but that won't change a thing. The decisions that led to this moment were enacted years ago, and no one has been hiding the plan. Nearly half of you were still right seat in a Cessna when this ball got rolling. If you weren't here to stop this, then who was? You can thank ALPA for not representing the interests of their mainline pilots. You can thank ALPA and their mainline members for voting in favor of relaxing scope to the point that the 170 ever went to a regional airline (thanks, United). You can thank US Airways pilots for creating poor 170 wages via a B-scale even when those planes were on the mainline certificate! You can thank Midwest airlines' inept management for getting so far behind the ball that they have no choice but to contract out the future of their airline.

RAH is an opportunistic airline, no doubt. Bedford preys on the flaws of mainline contracts, and management shortfalls. That will not change. We the pilots are improving our contract. The representation and legal team that gave us the beauty of a CBA that we all bash has been forcefully removed and rejected by the Teamsters. This is a move we at RAH have been calling for since 2005. We pilots at RAH look bad because of way our Local treated us and the way they structured our contract. We are not lawyers, and it has taken year if bad experience to learn what we need in a contract. Until that process is complete, though, you all are just going to have to deal with it, same as us.

 

[Captain Morgan]

So, what exactly is the big deal about RAH flying 190's? Who is surprised by this?

RAH began flying the 170 almost 5 years ago now. The whole 170/175/190/195 is a common type aircraft. When US Airways bought A319's, were you shocked to then see them get A320's and A321's? Our CEO has made it known since day one that 190's are the end game. The writing has been on the wall longer than most of you have even been airline pilots.

Now, for pay. Someone earlier worried that the RAH payrates will lower the bar for JetBlue and USAirways when they renegotiate. Well, USAirways will not have a new contract for as long as the pilots continue to throw poo over the whole Nicoli award and seniority integration. The East pilots are intentionally putting off the opportunity to raise their pay and QOL because to do so would enact the binding airbitration they don't like. And, if and when they ever do stop acting like children, they will have to negotiate UP to RAH's captain pay for 99 seat aircraft (the USAirways 190's are configured for 99 seats). And, until recently, first year FO's at US Airways were making $26/hr. And they could even be on a 757/767 for that wage!!!!! Not to mention airlines like CAL that start you at $30/hr with no health care benefits...and we all know of some "lucky" co-workers at our regionals who went to CAL and got into the 757, 767, or even the 777 for that wage. JetBlue does have the best E190 pay out there. That is what happens when: A) a payscale for that particular plane in negotiated in advance of the type arriving (which RAH has not yet completed), and B) the rate is not agreed to by union pilots who all fly bigger airplanes and what to keep the money for themselves (ala US Airways).

JetBlue will not farm out flying to RAH. They contracted with ExpressJet while in an extreme pinch once, but that was on a very limited basis, and ExpressJet was willing to do anything to keep revenue coming in the door.

None of the mainline/legacy carriers will scope out the 190's. With the exception of DAL, arguable the best run legacy out there now, every major carrier has pilots on furlough. No one is going to give away 100 seat flying while there are furloughs. Even the clusterfrick known as United will hold that line. If they don't, you should be runnig with pitchforks at that pilot group.

RAH got 2 190's for an airline that will not even have its own aircraft by the end of 2010. Boeing is taking ALL of the Midwest 717's. Do you really think that Midwest sold its soul to RAH and then decided to give back 16 717's? Midwest could not afford its own fleet, and contracted with RAH because they had larger airplanes sitting around idle. Midwest was dying long before RAH came into the picture. Looking back at posts on this site, you will find plenty of evidence backing me up around the time Airtran was making a bid for Midwest. RAH did not kill Midwest or take their pilots' jobs. Those jobs were going to be lost anyway. I still don't feel good about it, and I have never flown a Midwest trip, but that is the reality. RAH will probably get more 190's for Midwest in 2010. The two announced were lease aircraft. RAH does not have any delivery slots until 2010 for E-jets, so leases will have to do until then. But, when 2010 rolls around, look for more. In 2010, Midwest will lose all of the remianing 717's. The loss of these planes caught Midwest management a bit off guard, and they had to do something to continue the brand. Why they want to continue the brand when they have evicerated it so badly to this point is beyond me. But, Midwest management wants the name to live on. With no planes to fly, and no chance of getting the capital to buy or lease anything else, they needed someone else to provide the larger lift. Enter RAH management, desperate to get 190's.

If you want to call RAH a bottom feeder, go on ahead. Personally, dealing with a messed up money pit of an airline like Midwest makes me feel like a bottom feeder. I prefer the days when we flew only for legacy carriers that could afford to pay their bills. Now, we are stuck bailing out USAirways, keeping the Miwest name alive, and being stuck with the job of killing GO! Of course, we undercut everyone else so much that we can only afford to lend out about $90 million in cash this year alone. Who else, except Skywest, is so flush with cash that they can afford to help keep mainline carriers from shutting down and furloughing hundreds more? Let me tell you, you don't get that kind of spending money from being the cheapest product out there. RAH pilots get middle of the road pay (which was a step up from bottom tier pay prior to the 2003 contract we are still operating under), but our CEO does not charge our partner airlines based on pilot pay. Bedford has long made money off of the rates he charges our minaline partners. Case in point: when bedford agreed to fly some of our 145's for a 3% reduction in compensation, he never even ASKED for the pilots to reduce their wages accordingly. Bedford has been making bank by not being the cheapest for a long time. No one knows what the reimbursement rates are, and therefore you cannot make direct comparisons. But, could MESA or Expressjet afford to take a 3% cut in reimbursement without cutting labor costs?

Over the next 2 years, you will see RAH get more 190's for midwest. Who will own Midwest is anyone's guess. You may also see a handful of 190's out in Hawaii. Bedford has said he wants to be the number 2 airline out there. Not number one. RAH is not gunning for Hawaiian. However, the 190's won't grow beyond that.

And, let's not forget that some undisclosed US regional carrier has placed orders for the CRJ 1000. RAH is not the only player. It just so happens that our planes were available first. Planes of this size have been coming to the regionals for a while now. The only difference is that tangible proof has finally arrived. So go ahead, act all surprised and angry. You can hate RAH all you want, but that won't change a thing. The decisions that led to this moment were enacted years ago, and no one has been hiding the plan. Nearly half of you were still right seat in a Cessna when this ball got rolling. If you weren't here to stop this, then who was? You can thank ALPA for not representing the interests of their mainline pilots. You can thank ALPA and their mainline members for voting in favor of relaxing scope to the point that the 170 ever went to a regional airline (thanks, United). You can thank US Airways pilots for creating poor 170 wages via a B-scale even when those planes were on the mainline certificate! You can thank Midwest airlines' inept management for getting so far behind the ball that they have no choice but to contract out the future of their airline.

RAH is an opportunistic airline, no doubt. Bedford preys on the flaws of mainline contracts, and management shortfalls. That will not change. We the pilots are improving our contract. The representation and legal team that gave us the beauty of a CBA that we all bash has been forcefully removed and rejected by the Teamsters. This is a move we at RAH have been calling for since 2005. We pilots at RAH look bad because of way our Local treated us and the way they structured our contract. We are not lawyers, and it has taken year if bad experience to learn what we need in a contract. Until that process is complete, though, you all are just going to have to deal with it, same as us.

Hear, hear! Excellent post!