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ACA to go it alone!

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How is ACA going operate on their own when they can hardly operate as an express carrier for UAL or is that UAL's fault also. ACA has the worst on time and reliability record of any of UAL's express carriers.

Low cost carriers such as SWA and Jet Blue are doing well because they provide a quality product at a resonable price, not just because they are cheap.

I wish you all the best of luck I'd hate to see any more pilots out of work but right now you have a pretty poor product and a very high cost structure that is only going to increase with the addition of a reservation system/agents and advertising costs. Good luck to all of you. You have a tough time ahead of you.
 
RJPilott said:
Go back. Click on the link i provided. Scan thru till you reach 56:25 and listen till 57:52. Thanks for getting me to spend my time this morning to hold your hand and show you where it is. Ever heard of the term self-fulfilling prophecy? Sounds like you want to get furloughed. Relax, its spelled out in plain english on the webcast. I think you may have misunderstood Tom in the meeting you attended (perhaps that is why everyone clapped and you didnt?).
Click to expand...

A “code share” (outsourcing) was not discussed on the webcast. It was used later and said it was something that would have to be worked out with the union. The company would not furlough any more pilots unless we used a “code share” to fly the larger aircraft.
My point about this is that they are considering the option.
 
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Did he use the term "code-share" or did he use the term "outsourcing"? Code-sharing could mean to fly our larger aircraft, with our pilots, for a different carrier. And i'll repeat what i heard on the webcast, as well as thousands of others including many from Merryl Lynch etc... Straight from Tom, "We will have to honor the contract, our pilots will be flying the larger aircraft"(meaning, no outsourcing). So if he's lying to large brokerage firms, what does that do to his credibility?
 
Interesting news snippet:
Bombardier stock slides on order concerns
Tuesday July 29, 10:45 am ET


MONTREAL, July 29 (Reuters) - Bombardier(Toronto:BBDb.TO - News) stock fell another 6 percent on Tuesday morning after a key U.S. client said it would likely cancel up to 34 aircraft orders, or 10 percent of Bombardier's regional aircraft order backlog.

Bombardier class B shares were down 27 Canadian cents at C$4.66 at mid morning on the Toronto Stock Exchange (News - Websites), where they were the most heavily traded issue. The stock has lost 11 percent in the last two days.

Atlantic Coast Airlines (NasdaqNM:ACAI - News) said on Monday it expects to cancel up to 34 orders for 50-seat regional jets in favor of 15 to 25 larger aircraft from Boeing Co.(NYSE:BA - News) or Airbus.

A Bombardier spokesman said Atlantic Coast had not officially informed the company of the order cancellation.

Atlantic Coast made the announcement as it unveiled plans to transform itself into a low-cost airline after failing to reach an agreement over its regional feeder contract with United Airlines(OTC BB:UALAQ.OB - News).
Click to expand...
 
RDU was a key hub during the dot-com boom and Midway made lots of money selling high-$ business and walk-up tickets to all those start-ups. When the bubble burst and all the paper millionaires went bust, so did Midway's business. They tried to reinvent themselves as a LCC but failed. Now they fly feed for US and are expected to get out of banckruptcy in the next few months.
 
JetBlue = leather seats, leg room, and satellite TV

Southwest = LUV concept, sit where you want, etc.

AirTran = 717's? Not sure what else.

What do you think "Project Independence" (the new ACA startup)will use as a distinct product?
 
Well for a small start I know that IAD is prime real estate for a LCC. BWI is a nightmare commute to use SWA for anyone who lives West of BWI (Beltway traffic). For example, the execs at a company in MD drive the 50 miles to BWI just to use SWA. The drive to IAD is soo much easier and Northern VA is in such a growth mode right now that it really is a good place to start. Just my $.02.
 
Another thing to consider is that ACA is going to jump into the market with almost 100 aircraft. All the other LCC have started with a small number of aircraft and grown as the pax recognize who they are and what they offer. If ACA is also planning on increasing utilization (fly more hours a day) they're going to have to pull in more pax then they are getting now throught the United Network. All on an airline that no one has ever heard of. Sounds tough.
 
ACA managment will tell the pilots that they will have to accept J31 wages for the 737 or they will all be furloughed. ACA will pull the next "Skywest trick"-----flying bigger planes for smaller plane wages. They will state that they need extra capital to buy all of those mainline planes-----and they will threaten to furlough big time.

Bye Bye--General Lee:rolleyes:
 
Only time will tell ACA's destiny.

Right now I'm glad not to be in the twilight of my airline career (50+ years old) if we fail because that would be my end of it if ACA fails.

We've all got our concerns with the 328s, but the DAL issue seems to be a nonissue according to our MGT webcast. I'm keenly aware of our resident DAL scope-meisters, but our CEO is confident and DAL is amicable with the "modified" arrangement. Also, we're not an upstart airline in any sense, many pax know us as Atlantic Coast. There is name, but albeit, not "brand" recogition. Furthermore, we've got 200 mil in the bank, good credit and a "ground breaking" new method of utilizing RJs. Just because this hasn't been attempted before doesn't mean it won't work, and vice versa. This time next year we'll have a narrow-body that'll be fed by our RJ fleet, sounds like what AirTran is doing with AWAC in ATL now and what Jet Blue is seeking to do--in reverse.

I know that initially our 14 year veteran pilots will not be paid LUV pay, or industry leading pay, but hopefully industry average pay. This will cause a rift among our pilot ranks - junior vs. senior - but in time it'll even out. We opened the can-o-worms with the POS TA and our MGT has alluded to and plans to exploit that. Hind sight is 20/20...

This is good for the industry because it opens the door up for future uses of RJs (there's nothing regional about most of the "regional" carriers today, what a anachronistict nomenclature) which will be around for a long time. And maybe a future business model will come of it and allow more airlines to thrive. We all know how the major airline pilots feel about us bottom feeders and new guys to the industry (some of them forgot their roots). The current trunk carriers may go the way of the dinosaurs--if you can't improvise to overcome or adapt you die! So may ACA...

Tailwinds...
 
Its interesting to note that in most of the recent articles posted it says that ACA will still be seeking additional code share partners. Im assuming this is for the "other" operation and not the LCC. Is this gonna hurt their chances? Would someone like frontier want to contract with someone who may be competiting with them in the near future??
 
Im going to make a prediction.....the letter.....says....

"With ACA doing its new dance and AAI having one gate in Dulles...expect more AAI service and citeies fast just like the movment into BWI"

Our Senior Managment has made some remarks to the point and they rarley speak unless something will happen.
 
General,
99% of the managements out there threaten in the way of your response. For the most part, it's their job. Fortunately, the ACA pilots seem to be a unified group and will do what is best for their careers. I doubt they will get Delta plus 5% wages, but hopefully they will get a contract that will allow the company to grow as a LCC or whatever economics allow, provide effective scope, and allow their careers and companies to prosper. Something we could all use......
Bye bye.
 
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FDJ's, So what should we do? Stay at a regional and then apply at the bottom (i.e. reserve) somewhere else (when the "majors" start to hire again in 7 or so years) or grow into a full size LCC with bigger and better equipment and payscales - and hold a good line. The choice should be an easy one.
 
46Driver said:
FDJ's, So what should we do? Stay at a regional and then apply at the bottom (i.e. reserve) somewhere else (when the "majors" start to hire again in 7 or so years) or grow into a full size LCC with bigger and better equipment and payscales - and hold a good line. The choice should be an easy one.
Click to expand...

I can't tell you what to do.

But I can tell you that the choice gets more difficult if you consider the next 30 years of your career, not just the immediate future.

Sometimes things look good initially, but in the long run turn out to be harmful.

You have to fly what mgt tells you to fly. I know that. But I wish more people would consider that this might not be the best news for any of us, including the pilots of ACA who desire a long and prosperous career just as much as the rest of us.

I hope I am wrong, and mean no disrespect. I'm just a bit more concerned than others seem to be.
 
FDJ,
With all due respect, LCC's are inevitable. Economics dictate it. We should make the best of the hand that's been dealt. We can't change the economics of the industry, only take advantage of them.
 
Govisual,

Delta management said the same thing to us in 1994 in Mid-contract talks---"The industry has changed forever..." Then in 1996 we had a huge Tech upcycle and premium passengers were back. Then the bubble burst and 9-11 happened. This is just a cycle that has hurt a lot of people. Hey, I want the LCCs to do well--especially Song.

Bye Bye--General Lee:cool: :rolleyes:
 
Attn all ACA haters, doomsayers and wannabees:

We (at ACA) aren't going out like a bunch of punk-a$$-hoes. You can theorize, hypothesize and calculate CPSM till your Blue(ridge) in the face. It's going to take faith, determination and hard work...but most of all, we have a great pilot group willing to make things happen.

This could start a whole new way of doing business for regional airlines. Somebody needs to make a stand and take a risk to show others "IT CAN BE DONE". It WILL be ACA!!!!
 
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Maybe this was just a gutsy management move.




United, ACA still may reach agreement
Dateline: Wednesday August 06, 2003

Despite Atlantic Coast Airlines' decision to become an independent low-fare carrier and end its participation in the United Express codesharing program (ATWOnline, July 29), United Airlines said ACA still is interested in talking about a new long-term relationship.

"We will meet with them [ACA] soon in an effort to restart these negotiations," a UA official told other executives during an internal meeting last week. United also implied that it is somewhat in control of the Regional's future. "ACA is still under contract with United Airlines and will continue to operate as a United Express partner until we either reach a new agreement or we decide to end the relationship," the official said. "Again, I want to emphasize there is no imminent change here."
United and ACA failed to come to agreement on a new contract after months of negotiating, prompting ACA to make the decision to go it alone as a low-fare carrier. UA has reached new codesharing agreements with SkyWest Airlines, Air Wisconsin, Trans States Airlines and Mesa Air Group to operate as United Express partners.

A company official said the Major's preferred outcome from the dispute is a "mutually beneficial agreement that keeps ACA in place serving United Express customers in Chicago and [Washington] Dulles." But it reaffirmed that it has "alternative plans" that would provide continuity of service should it fail to reach a deal with ACA.--LF
 
I believe things are "fluid" at the moment. Will the J41's stay? Will the 737 dreams be dashed? We'll see after the commercial break.....

Bye Bye--General Lee:cool: :rolleyes:
 
I second House_X's motion....

I met a crew from ACA today and as I walked in the ops area, her beaming smile hit me, and she said Hello....I said, "that's it!" the look that will win customers, the one that Piedmont airlines had in the 70's and the ones that radiate and ooze customer service.

I applaud their decision and do it again here. the model works , low prices are here to stay, and ACA will make it! and it will be the people of ACA from janitor to the top who will decide if they win the game.
 
NYRANGERS said:
Maybe this was just a gutsy management move.




United, ACA still may reach agreement
Dateline: Wednesday August 06, 2003

Despite Atlantic Coast Airlines' decision to become an independent low-fare carrier and end its participation in the United Express codesharing program (ATWOnline, July 29), United Airlines said ACA still is interested in talking about a new long-term relationship.

.--LF
Click to expand...


Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
 
It is quite possible that we will keep flying for UAL (and thus keep the J-41's) AND get our 757/737/Airbus. The LCC (under Atlantic Coast - NOT United) is a go and no matter how much you want to deny it, it is going to happen. Nothing that UAL or DAL can do to stop us getting bigger airplanes - and its time to make the jump to the next higher level.
 
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46driver,

If you compete directly with DAL with your new LCC, they will probably drop the other half of you feed--at CVG. Sure, we might have to take on the DO-328J leases, but we will train people fast--and you will furlough many. It is great to have dreams, but remember----there is a contract in place that can be broken.

Bye Bye--General Lee:cool: :rolleyes:
 
General Lee said:
46driver,

If you compete directly with DAL with your new LCC, they will probably drop the other half of you feed--at CVG. Sure, we might have to take on the DO-328J leases, but we will train people fast--and you will furlough many. It is great to have dreams, but remember----there is a contract in place that can be broken.

Bye Bye--General Lee:cool: :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

General, dreams are what drive us. Whether they come to fruition or are squandered in red tape - in ACA's case I believe the facts speak for themselves, it can suceed. I'm not so worried about our 'reliable' 30 DoJets on the DAL side - it represents 15% of revenue. You can have them. And I won't forget to wave to ya from our mighty 737/A320???? Blue Skies ahead.
 
Fair enough,

Say ACAI brings larger aircraft on property by 5/04 and begins operating them.

DAL can take the aircraft leases if they break the contract. That would be say 6 months to a year to train ASA or Comair pilots and transition the aircraft.

So by 5/05 one of the Delta connection wholly owned carriers will have control of the Do328s. Depending on how many larger narrowbody aircraft we lease their may be no furloughs.

I hope DAL does take the FRJs. With just two fleet types, one hub, and everyone focused on one goal, it gives us a better chance of success.
 
46Driver said:
It is quite possible that we will keep flying for UAL (and thus keep the J-41's) AND get our 757/737/Airbus. The LCC (under Atlantic Coast - NOT United) is a go and no matter how much you want to deny it, it is going to happen. Nothing that UAL or DAL can do to stop us getting bigger airplanes - and its time to make the jump to the next higher level.
Click to expand...

Damm! That must be mighty fine kool-aid they serve over there...

Drink up!

:D
 

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