ACA Contract Concessions

[kntrdr]

Kind of pathetic for them to lump Expressjet in there with the others. XJT is currently deep in contract negotiations and operating on a 6 year old contract.

So is Chautauqua.

 

[Beantown]

3 story house?? You have everything you need and then some?and you want to go back to CCAir??? lol... well obviously CCair isnt paying for it... its people like you that ruin our profession.... I have worked hard for my career... i dont have everything i need and then some.... im trying to make a living doing what i love. Some of us dont have the luxury of investing in a career with ample redundancy where we can take jobs at CCAir while living in a 3 story house and having "everything we need AND THEN SOME"!!!!!!!

I will gladly stop by.. you buy the steak and beers too.. huh? PM me your number... i'll show you what pride is about.... Strictly professional.... no testosterone...

RJPilot, Lets get a few things straight. (1) I have earned everything that I have. Nothing has ever been given to me. The problem is that you don't know me. You sit behind your screen name and call me a "lazy ass" and say that I "ruin our profession" but you have no idea who I am or what I am about. It's pathetic. (2) You have no idea if CCair paid for my house. There were Dash CA a CC who made close to $100,000 a year. That will pay for a large house and some in Charlotte. But what do you know. You just sit at your desk pretending to take the high road while taking every opportunity to take a pot shot. That's character. (3) I just sent you my phone number and address as you requested. Lets see if you show up at my house or not. You have proven through your posts that you are no professional and I promise if you show up at my house and tell me to my face that I am a "lazy whore" our meeting will not end in a professional manner. You talk smack about me personally for 10 posts straight and then say that you want to meet and
" show you what pride is about.... Strictly professional.... no testosterone" What a crock! If you want to question who I am without ever meeting me you will deserve what you get.

To all the other ACA guys out there, sorry about kidnapping your thread, that is over. Stay strong and I hope things turn out for the best. -Bean

 

[RJPilott]

There were Dash CA a CC who made close to $100,000 a year. That will pay for a large house and some in Charlotte. But what do you know.

Your right.. i dont know.. are YOU that Capt? and if you arent.. why would you go back to CCAir when you obviously make enough to fly on the side and own a 3 story house? You mean to tell me when you go back to CCAir under the Mesa Contract you will be paid enough at 2100TT to provide for your 3 story house?

Now its time for me to waive the BS Flag...


I have your info.. i look forward to our meeting as well and i thank you... but make no mistake.. i will be professional about it.. if you want to take it to another low level that is your choice since you feel it might not be professional... I can control my emotions with a good debate....but if you want to take it to a new substardard level as you have suggested... i can go there too... Thanks for your info... watch for the big goofy italian standing at your door.... we'll chat... and yes.. i will call you a whore to your face cause i know dam well Mesa rates cant pay for that house especially after you have been furloughed... you are going back to work to wear a polyester suit and say you fly a jet with 2100TT... you dam sure know you arent going back to provide for your house or your standard of living... I work for a living... why are you going back to Mesa rates?

 

[stillaboo]

Show me the $

There's more to life than how much you make. Do you even enjoy your job? Would you enjoy it more if you made more $, really? If so, go be a doctor, or the highest paying profession you can hold a job in. You're wasting away in the quagmire of a CRJ cockpit right now.

28K or 36K, who cares? QOL isn't for sale, and, with your attitude, you'd never be able to afford it anyway.

 

[CatYaaak]

..watch for the big italian standing at your door.... we'll chat... and yes.. i will call you a whore to your face cause i know dam well Mesa rates cant pay for that house especially after you have been furloughed

I'm just a member of the Peanut Gallery here, but THIS I find amusing! Are you implying that being a "big Italian" is supposed to somehow be intimidating?

Can I buy a ticket to this little meeting? My money is on the guy who's defending his home while being blamed for every regional pay-scale woe.

The fact is, RJPilott, the QOL and pay at ALL regionals (or commuters, as they used to be known) sucks, has always sucked, and will continue to suck. There is no "race to the bottom" because it has always BEEN at the bottom, and many of those heaping derision now helped promote it across the industry when they first entered the industry. Guys making top pay at ASA now were the ones who agreed to work for $900/month a little over 10 years ago. Lots of senior pilots at Comair are PFT pukes. ACA also had it. Many more at an array of companies ushered in the era of training contracts by agreeing to them (gotta get that tubine time!). Your scorn is not only misplaced, it's laughable.

You probably have plenty of those "whores" sitting in seats next to you within your own company, Especially the more senior ones. Perhaps you should take a look in the mirror before pretending your pilot group have some moral authority to dictate to pilot's of another company what they voted is best for them at this place an time.

Now, where do I get those tickets?

 

[Checks]

I am also from the peanut gallery and CatYak is right on. I have never worked at a regional and realize I dont know jack BUT I do know that not get paid during 4 months of training at ACA is not what I wanted to do. I guess I didnt want to fly a jet bad enough. You guys are way UNDERPAID. I cant believe anybody from management could ask a regional pilot for pay concessions. I do wish you guys good luck.

 

[RJPilott]

I'm just a member of the Peanut Gallery here, but THIS I find amusing! Are you implying that being a "big Italian" is supposed to somehow be intimidating?

Actually... no.... lol... but i do find it amusing you took that perception. I changed it just for you Cat so it remains clear it wasnt intended as intimidation. I also find it amusing you feel he needs to defend his home. Take note of the "We'll chat" statement.


Look guys, i just want to be able to fly an airplane and be able to make a decent living. My QOL is actually pretty good at ACA. I average 16 off per month and im able to grill a steak on the weekends while being able to afford a decent home on a regional pilot salary. When our management comes to us for concessions one week after Mesa ratifys their TA while quoting Mesa, you somehow dont want to go out and buy the Mesa guys a thank you card for raising the bar....

 

[RJPilott]

when they only make 5-7% or so more.

Actually, there is a comparison chart on our ACO MEC site. Its 12% more till year 4 then 13% thereafter. That is only straight forward payrate comparison. It does not include bonuses, FULL cancellation pay, etc etc....

 

[j41driver]

You make fun of the Mesa pay but the fact is you (and your great contracts) only make a couple thousand more.

Let's compare "real world" compensation a bit.

I was hired at ACA in 3/00. I was a J41 (29 seat turboprop) CA from 01/02 - 10/02 and in training for 328Jet (32 seat jet) CA from 10/02 - 12/20/02. This means that for only 11 days in 2002 I was paid as a 328Jet CA. The rest of the year I was paid as a J41 CA (not to mention that Jan -June I was on reserve -- 11 days off minimum on reserve, BTW) and for basically the last 2 months of the year I received on ly the 75 hour monthly guarantee and no per diem. (I was based in IAD and that's where the 328Jet training takes place, hence no per diem) My gross pay for 2002 was $54,070.56. Based on what I flew last year, I will make around $60,000 in 2003 as a 328Jet CA lineholder for the entire year provided that the pay rates remain the same. (This does not include the May 9, 2003 contractual pay raise...which we probably aren't going to get I would guess) Keep in mind that this is flying a 32 passenger aircraft. The CRJ CA's with my seniority are making more $$. Also, I had 11 days off/month as a J41 CA and have had at least 12 days off/month as a 328Jet CA.

I'd like to find out from Mesa guys how this really compares to what you've made in 2002 and what you will make in 2003 with your new contract.

 

[j41driver]

Over 70% of pilots at ACA PFT'd .

You don't know what you are talking about. On the most recent seniority list I am #704 of 1674 with a date of hire of 3/13/00. If my math is correct, that puts me in about the top 42% of the pilot list and I know that I didn't PFT. So there goes your 70% number. Sorry. ACA quit PFT in...geez what was it ...1998 I think. That would put the number at less that 25% that PFT'd if you assume that all of the guys with DOH's before they quit PFT actually did PFT. The Air Wisky guys that were merged did not and they make up a good portion of the top of the list.

 

[tarp]

To my fellow ACA pilots (and to the rest as well):

1.) Getting into a ####ing contest with the fellow pilots is just beneath us at this time (divide and conquer).

2.) I have two Mesa buddies and both truthfully voted "no". They don't understand the "yes" votes either, but an awful lot of people took the bait and got scared.

3.) If a vote comes to ACA, I know I will vote NO concessions. I don't care - we are paid diddly squat to do our job. Our wages are within 10% of everybody else (yes we're 4% lower than CMR and ASA and we're 10-11% higher than Mesa and CHQ). 10% of nothing is nothing and 10% of almost nothing is still nothing.

4.) I don't know what your paycheck says, but last year I got paid $24.70/flt hr to fly right seat DO and $47.60 to fly left seat DO. My W-4 says $28K and some change in SALARY. Next year, converting to the CRJ, I will jump (potentially) to $58K as my highest possible earnings. So here I am a 3-year veteran of the airline with a 4-yr degree and 3,000 hrs of personally bought training to make the grade and I'm still averaging a salary roughly equivalent to an apprentice plumber or carpenter.

5.) Counting your per diem as salary is just sick. That is money you get to live on the road. If YOU think of it as salary, then the COMPANY will think of it as salary. It's not! It is a pitiful amount of money that does not adequately reimburse me for my travel expenses on the road. At the end of the year, I did not have my 28K salary and 5K of perdiem to spend. The 5K vanished on the road and Uncle Sam and the state of Maryland took 50% of the rest leaving me with $14,000 to pay all my bills at home.

5.) Even if I vote NO on concessions, I gather enough of you will vote YES to allow the thing to pass and I will have to eat my tongue and continue working or give up a very valuable seniority number.

6.) I will get poorer and the rich including Tom, Kerry and Jonathon will get richer. The industry will break our backs to provide $100 airfares to anywhere in the country while still making fat profits and boosting the stock price. This is capitalism.

7.) The only way #6 will not happen is if we:

a.) strike (or do something to slow the juggernaut)
b.) have a horrific week where undertrained, overworked and underpaid pilots have lots of accidents.
c.) re-regulate.

a.) requires a strong and united union and maybe even a national level demonstration of how bad the plight of a regional pilot is.
b.) is a nightmare in our minds, but a string of accidents (which I think is a possibility) from stressed and fatigued pilots would create a public outcry for change (regardless of cost - kind of like the current security spending).
c.) also unthinkable to a conservative capitalist like myself, but if the airline's management can't successfully run a business, then maybe we should have a regulated industry so people will understand that it costs $500 per ticket to take them coast-to-coast and $1000 to take them to Europe and there's no such thing as a "free ride".

 

[patq1]

Tarp,

Well said. It sounds like you have the best attitude of anyone around here. Also, I especially have to agree with you about counting per diem as part of earnings; it is ridiculous. It is absurd. Good luck,

pat

 

[46Driver]

Tarp,
Just an observation: but I don't think the American public is going to believe, accept, or support anything that raises their airfares. The standard line is: if JetBlue, AirTran, and Southwest can do it, you (we) should be able as well, or the company deserves to go out of business - survival of the fittest.

 

[CRJ puppy]

Tarp's discusssion about wages (not sure why anyone calls it a "salary" since we're paid hourly...guess I shouldn't have minored in english) is right on. His/her accounting of annual income is much more in line with the rest of us. As for the per diem, sh*t I've spent a days' worth (or more) on one lousy meal when there was no where else to eat. It certainly isn't part of my annual income that I count on.


I too am constantly amazed that there isn't some horrific accident at the regional level. Having your duty day extended until 3 or 4 am and flying in crap wx doesn't result in the safest scenario as far as I'm concerned.

Let's just hope the major changes that need to occur in this industry happening fast.


(I know, I know. I'm hallucinating again! I shouldn't have stopped that glue sniffing thing! Sorry.)

Oh, it's too bad that a thread regarding concessions at ACA degraded into a "pi$$ing contest" between members. I am so glad that all my fellow pilots are professionals <-- damm tongue stuck in cheek again!

 

[j41driver]

5.) Counting your per diem as salary is just sick. That is money you get to live on the road. If YOU think of it as salary, then the COMPANY will think of it as salary. It's not!

I guess this was directed in my general direction. I do not consider per diem as part of my salary but since per diem shows up in my paychecks, I included it in my previous post. I had $3661.20 in per diem last year (lots of reserve and training) so subtract that from the other number and that's how much I actually made. Well...before Uncle Sam got more than his fair share at least.