ABX Hiring!?!

[erichartmann]

Penguin,

I think you might be surprised by how many of or brothers do choose to stay a while past 60. I could be wrong but I don't think I am.

You're probably right. I have spoken to a few, and they plan to stay, if only for the medical coverage. It costs around $800.00 per month for their "half" of the provided coverage after retirement. They also indicated they did not plan to fly any more than they absolutely had to. We'll see.

 

[erichartmann]

What is being asked here is to spread the opf around. The number of days will stay the same, but more people will have an option to bid it or not. Right now the only option is for the top 100 or so. That is a wrong that needs to be righted. I must say tho, your answer is spoken like a true senior pilot that has his ,so screw the others.FWIT

Not at all. I took my reaming when I was junior. I'm just asking why I should be reamed twice, and how you equate that with fairness. I'll conceed that the second reaming, if you have you way, is not likely to be as painful as the first, but....

 

[SkyMiles]

In what contract did open flying begin?

 

[FreightBumper]

Not at all. I took my reaming when I was junior. I'm just asking why I should be reamed twice, and how you equate that with fairness. I'll conceed that the second reaming, if you have you way, is not likely to be as painful as the first, but....

OPF is not a right given to the senior group as you insinuate. You cannot have been reamed by not having enough open flying. Show me the contract language that stipulates that the opf was to be a perk to just the senior weenies. It is an added benefit that should be available to all those that might want it. No one should be able to have all of it. If the most senior captain could bid all the opf that was available and the number two guy got none, he would scream about how unfair it was. When we didn't bid opf a while back, a very senior captain told me how lucky I was to be junior and getting all the emergency call outs. I told him that he could quit calling in sick when they called him, and he told me that that wasn't right cause he would have to go somewhere that he didn't want to go. Sounds like having your cake and eating it too.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Of course they'll be exceptions, but I highly doubt the vast majority of senior ABX pilots will stick around after 60.

As long as there's no penalty for leaving at 60.

Hate to say it but with the current staff of "give me" "give me" pilots we have there will be no more handicaped spots left in the parking lot as these guys go for cash bonus to 65.

 

[erichartmann]

OPF is not a right given to the senior group as you insinuate. You cannot have been reamed by not having enough open flying. Show me the contract language that stipulates that the opf was to be a perk to just the senior weenies. It is an added benefit that should be available to all those that might want it. No one should be able to have all of it. If the most senior captain could bid all the opf that was available and the number two guy got none, he would scream about how unfair it was. When we didn't bid opf a while back, a very senior captain told me how lucky I was to be junior and getting all the emergency call outs. I told him that he could quit calling in sick when they called him, and he told me that that wasn't right cause he would have to go somewhere that he didn't want to go. Sounds like having your cake and eating it too.

My reaming was via reserve, among other things. There was no FIFO list. Junior man went first, always. Some months I flew 80+ hard hours. My pay rate was less than that of a 2nd year DC-9 F/O. I got straight hours for time over 65. I got the line nobody else wanted for years. I got the vacation nobody else wanted for years.

What open time was available I couldn't touch for years, even though the pay rate was significantly lower than today's. Open time then was paid at a substandard (i.e. less than average daily rate, which is today 4.5 hours) rate that approximated 1/2 daily rate and no hours till you went over 65. When I could get it, I got what nobody else wanted.

Times changed I got more seniority and now I get some of what I want. Not all. The only one who gets exactly what he wants is #1. If you are fortunate enough to bid #1 in your seat you hold the trump card. I never have, and never will as things currently stand. So be it.

Seniority is not a level playing field, and in that sense has never been "fair". It is better than favoritism or nepotism, or any of the other "isms" it replaces.

 

[erichartmann]

In what contract did open flying begin?

As we know it today it began in the 1992 contact. There was a form of it in the 1987 agreeement. I don't recall before that.

 

[penguin22]

OPF is not a right given to the senior group as you insinuate... Show me the contract language that stipulates that the opf was to be a perk to just the senior weenies. It is an added benefit that should be available to all those that might want it.

Sure! Always happy to help you understand seniority...

Article 13, Section E, para 3
3. Open Flying time shall be awarded in accordance with seniority
to any crewmember bidding a particular trip, who wishes to
pick up additional flying (days and/or hours) on a previously
scheduled work day, or day off.

There was no FIFO list. Junior man went first, always.

Ya know, I think its only fair that we go back to that system.
Why should we senior pilots now have to suffer through actually flying on a reserve line?
I mean when we were junior, we did all the reserve flying while the senior guys sat home, never having to work. Fair is fair, right?

 

[FreightBumper]

Sure! Always happy to help you understand seniority...

Article 13, Section E, para 3
3. Open Flying time shall be awarded in accordance with seniority
to any crewmember bidding a particular trip, who wishes to
pick up additional flying (days and/or hours) on a previously
scheduled work day, or day off.


Ya know, I think its only fair that we go back to that system.
Why should we senior pilots now have to suffer through actually flying on a reserve line?
I mean when we were junior, we did all the reserve flying while the senior guys sat home, never having to work. Fair is fair, right?

Now we know you can apply your personal meaning to some clauses in the contract just like company management. It doesn't mean senior pilots should have all the opf, it means that it will be awarded in order of seniority. Sorry to be the one to tell you it's not your right to have ALL the opf, it's your choice. And that my friend is called greed.

 

[erichartmann]

... it means that it will be awarded in order of seniority.

Exactly. The senior crewmember has first choice for what he wants up to the FAA limits on flight time for the period. The 2nd most senior crewmember then gets his choice etc.

Sorry to be the one to tell you it's not your right to have ALL the opf, it's your choice. And that my friend is called greed.

Well, pehaps. It's clearly impossible for any one person to get ALL of the OPF. In fact, given the amount of J/M going on, there should be more than enough OPF for anyone who wants it. Its not that the junior crewmember can't get it, he just can't get the trip he wants on the beginning or end of a block of time to the city of his choice.

 

[erichartmann]

Ya know, I think its only fair that we go back to that system.
Why should we senior pilots now have to suffer through actually flying on a reserve line?
I mean when we were junior, we did all the reserve flying while the senior guys sat home, never having to work. Fair is fair, right?

I didn't say it was right. I only pointed out I had spent my time in the barrel, and indicated things were much better now than they had been. I supported those changes. I also feel my time in the barrel has earned me the rights I currently enjoy.

The system will no doubt change, but it should do so very slowly so that those like me can enjoy what we earned and not get penalized twice, one for being junior, and again for being senior.

 

[Box-Hauler]

I also feel my time in the barrel has earned me the rights I currently enjoy.

The system will no doubt change, but it should do so very slowly so that those like me can enjoy what we earned and not get penalized twice, one for being junior, and again for being senior.

With the logic above, if you spent time in a Mexican prison it would earn you the "right" to gang r*pe someone in the shower at the gym.

You have proven your selfishness by the statement that things should change but only after you have gotten yours, a second time. I do agree that it is now law, and my beef is with the idiots that passed this law, but like a spoiled child you gloat and brag that this is now a "right" that you somehow earned. I would have more respect if you simply just said it is now the law and it is what is best for myself and my family.

I hope that you enjoy the extra 5 years.

 

[erichartmann]

With the logic above, if you spent time in a Mexican prison it would earn you the "right" to gang r*pe someone in the shower at the gym.

You have proven your selfishness by the statement that things should change but only after you have gotten yours, a second time. I do agree that it is now law, and my beef is with the idiots that passed this law, but like a spoiled child you gloat and brag that this is now a "right" that you somehow earned. I would have more respect if you simply just said it is now the law and it is what is best for myself and my family.

I hope that you enjoy the extra 5 years.

I don't think we're discussing the same thing. I wasn't addressing the rise in mandatory retirement age, though I can see where it helps some. I haven't decided what I'll do when the time comes, assuming our CBA retains age 60 as the "normal" retirement age. Consider though that there is a certain incentive to remain beyond 60 if possible for many if not most pilots. If I do stay beyond 60 it will be to close (but not eliminate) the gap between my ability to collect SS benefits and retain medical insurance coverage for my family and myself. The real problem for us, all of us, is the stagnation/shrinkage of our airline. Welcome to the airline industry.

BTW, your logic is seriously flawed. The ability to "gang rape" someone in any prison has little to do with laws and rules.

 

[bjbears]

So if ABX is JR'Manning and you guys are short pilots when do they expect to hire? I know if says that they are hiring on line but from recent posts it sounds like there has only been one class of 4 for Japan and nothing for Wilmington.

Thanks

 

[Jurassic Jet]

So if ABX is JR'Manning and you guys are short pilots when do they expect to hire? I know if says that they are hiring on line but from recent posts it sounds like there has only been one class of 4 for Japan and nothing for Wilmington.

Thanks

I would not hold my breath waiting on ABX to hire. Until they start cancelling flights for DHL due to lack of crews, they are viewing every night that they do not cancel any as a stunning success and credit to their wisdom in crew planning.

They are already cancelling flights for charters due to lack of crews, but for some reason, that doesn't seem to count.

As long as guys continue to answer their phone for JRM assignments, do 15 days of overtime a month, and cut deals with schedulers to make everything work, why should they hire?uke:

Couple this with the fact of the upcoming surpluses out of the DC-8 here in a few weeks, I just don't see any hiring.

Oh yeah, almost forgot, the geezer law. That's REALLY gonna help the movement out here.uke:

Further, in my opinion, I look for the company to quit playing Mr. Nice Guy with the KIX domicile. They said they don't want to force anyone over there that doesn't want to go, but if the company perceives themselves to be adequately or marginally overstaffed, I look for that policy to change as well further stifling any hopes of more hiring.

These are strictly my opinions and granted I am not privy to the "Big Picture". Maybe (hopefully) there is something going on behind the scenes in the positive for us.