ABX furloughs

[abxaviator]

deleted

 

[abxaviator]

We are indeed blessed; not just a message but also bid packs and a letter of agreement have appeared in my in-box. The bid pack shows 98 lines for some 125 crew members in each 767 seat, the surplus I suppose to be covered by build-up lines which will probably be assigned to maximize the consecutive period spent on ANA flying to 24 days. We did reach agreement for maximum consecutive time spent in Asia to be 15 days didn't we? Not much of an agreement otherwise.

Sorry but that is pretty much entirely wrong. Between the Domestic and ANA lines, there are 95 flying lines plus 23 Capt R-lines and 20 FO R-lines. I don't know what you are referring to by the "surplus" and build-up lines. The period in Japan will not be 24 days, as shown in the bid pack the ANA lines are constructed per the "non-std" parameters with 11 or 12 work days (including travel days, 2out, 1 back).

Keep in mind, this is NOT an agreement for long-term contractual deviation for ANA. This is a temporary, stop-gap agreement until ratification of the new CBA and ANA Agreement.

As for saying it's not much of an agreement, I doubt the guys who just got brought back would agree with you.

 

[AV8OR]

As one of my colleagues (one with a graduate degree in International Finance) has just informed me, there's no use continuing this discussion until the difference between "guaranteed revenue" and "guaranteed profit" are understood by all the participants.

One good thing has come out of this discourse - I'm starting to understand why the contract negotiations have been taking so long.

How will we ever survive without your pearls of sophisticated wisdom.

Let me just say on behalf of all here how much we've appreciated and benefitted from your condescension to our level. I'm sorry we have your comprehension Dan. Maybe if the forum could have supported flanelgraph cutouts or pie charts we'd have gottin it. Reeaaly though....thanks for the effort. Now I know why ALL the busses at ILN are short to go to the ramp......so we'll feel more at home.

You take care now.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

I received an incomplete bid pack - so yes, my post #239 is, as so kindly and tactfully pointed out, entirely wrong and consequently best ignored. I obviously picked the wrong day to quit smoking dope.

 

[xspud]

RE: ANA lines

Would I be correct to assume that, on the "non-standard" lines with 12 day ANA blocks, the extra days off do not have to be bid back? In other words they are true 19 day-off lines?

If so, that looks pretty good to me. Would be a lot more palatable to the group than the proposed 23 on/23 off 3 month cycles. A lot less productive, obviously. 4+ fewer work days per month by my count.

 

[inplaneview]

'Tip or the hat' to Dave and his crew for getting this mess cleaned up. Shame on the company for putting the 10 junior guys and their families thru this. What did Joe gain, except even more distrust from the pilot group as a whole?

 

[abxaviator]

Would I be correct to assume that, on the "non-standard" lines with 12 day ANA blocks, the extra days off do not have to be bid back? In other words they are true 19 day-off lines?

If so, that looks pretty good to me. Would be a lot more palatable to the group than the proposed 23 on/23 off 3 month cycles. A lot less productive, obviously. 4+ fewer work days per month by my count.

That is correct, with Non-Std lines one does not bid back the days. As to your reference to the 23/23, this does NOT replace that, this is a way to TEMPORARILY staff the ANA operation under the current contract. It is VERY unproductive and doubles the cost of commercial travel. When we get a TA for ratification, we will also be moving forward with a Deviation Agreement for ANA which will, in all probability, include the 23 day blocks.

 

[xspud]

As to your reference to the 23/23, this does NOT replace that, this is a way to TEMPORARILY staff the ANA operation under the current contract.

Yep, I understood that. I also can see how much less productivity is in those lines. Now that we're re-entering contract negotiations, the question of 23/23 becomes an issue again. I know the company & negotiators had basically agreed on 23/23 but there are obviously a number of pilots uncertain whether they can sign off on it. Don't know that we can come up with any reasonable alternatives at this point, but it's time to discuss it again.

 

[xspud]

'Tip or the hat' to Dave and his crew for getting this mess cleaned up.

I'll second that! Welcome back to all the recent furloughees. Thanks to the e-board for their hard work and to the many who supported their efforts.

We still have guys out who want to come back, I hope this ship can get turned around and they have their shot, too.

 

[BoxesRus]

I'm wondering if we're gonna find outselves faced with being coerced into accepting the 23/28 day ANA blocks as a choice between that or Hete putting the furoughees back out on the street. I wouldn't put it past him.