AAI Pilots Expectations for January 2015

[Ty Webb]

If I was an AirTran pilot my expectations would be a job infinitely better than what I had and would gladly sit in the back with a nice warm cup of STFU.

Reading your post, while on a 26 hour layover at a Caribbean island resort, really drives home how truly ignorant you are of what it's like over here. :laugh:

I'm going to the beach. Y'all have fun with this one.

Ty

 

[Roomwithaview]

Shag

There are lance captains and a few senior FO's right now that are senior enough to hold captain. If there is not a net gain in Captains, they can't bid in and hold captain...period. If, in January of 2015, there is a vacancy creating +20 captains, exactly 20 people, most likely former Air Tran, will be able to bid into those positions.

I got what you're saying even though I can't find anything in the contract that clearly spells that out. I guess a couple concerns I have are the secondary vacancy issue, and the fact that we've never had this many pilots that will want and have a bid in for a capt spot that on an instant date will now be able to hold it, on paper at least. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 500 is what I've been told.

Then there's the caveat about the 717 guys losing their spots. I thought I remembered some language in there regarding that issue as well and was wondering how that would play out.

I was hoping for more input from the AAI side since I don't have access to their SL only our contract and SL-10. After 2015 we'll all be in the same bidding boat and it would be nice to have information on how things are going to go down post reconstruction.

RAV

 

[HowardBorden]

I was hoping for more input from the AAI side since I don't have access to their SL only our contract and SL-10. After 2015 we'll all be in the same bidding boat and it would be nice to have information on how things are going to go down post reconstruction.

RAV

Go to SWAPA.org - News - AirTran Transition Info and you will find all the documents including the ALPA contract and side letter.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Howard

Thanks for all that. Kind of raises even more questions for me.

There's this

Until January 1, 2015, all 737 Captain will be filled by current Southwest pilots. After that date, Captain vacancies at SWA will be determined by system seniority.

and then this

A. AirTran pilots whose seat position is eliminated by reduction of the B717 fleet will bid system seniority for their new assignment. (27.F.2.)

Which brings up the question of what the definition of "system seniority" bid is.

I know what it meant in the past. Thoughts?

 

[scoreboardII]

It means what it means, system. Not domicile.

 

[HowardBorden]

Thanks for all that. Kind of raises even more questions for me.

There's this
and then this

Which brings up the question of what the definition of "system seniority" bid is.

I know what it meant in the past. Thoughts?

From S.L. 10
1. "AirTran Pilot": Any Pilot on the AirTran Master Pilot Seniority List as of the date of ratification of Side Letter 10.

1. AirTran Pilots will be prohibited from holding a Captain or Lance Captain position on the Southwest B737 until the January 2015 bid period

This section will be in effect until January 1, 2015, at which time it will become null and void, and the remainder of the Southwest/SWAPA CBA will be in full effect without any modifications delineated within this section.

From the CBA
7. All new vacancies put up for bid as well as all secondary vacancies left open by successful bidders will be available to all pilots in the system.

The way I understand it is post 2015 all pilots will be considered to be in the "system" (if in fact the company is held to the agreed upon time line). System seniority refers to "global" seniority on the list as opposed to "domicile" seniority in my opinion.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Thanks for all that. Kind of raises even more questions for me.

There's this
and then this

Which brings up the question of what the definition of "system seniority" bid is.

I know what it meant in the past. Thoughts?

System seniority is where you sit on the master, integrated Southwest seniority list, agreed to by both sides. On 1 Jan 2015, there's no fences, carve outs, etc.; you can bid what your position on the list can hold, whether it's a captain seat or not. This includes a seat in any domicile your seniority allows.

The fly in the ointment is whether there's an opening or not. On that date, a lot of former AirTran pilots will be senior enough to be captains, but won't upgrade until there's an opening. Like they said above, you can't bump a more junior guy out of his seat to upgrade. That's stymied orig Southwest guys for years, whenever there's no growth. "Secondary displacements" allow you bump a junior guy out of his domicile (if there's a reduction in your domicile's positions), but not out of his seat.

With no net gain in captain seats in a given bid period, FOs normally can't expect to upgrade (no matter how senior), but sometimes it happens. For instance, if BWI decreases CA seats, the junior guy MAY not be willing to be displaced to OAK, but rather accept being the senior FO in BWI instead. That frees up a CA seat somewhere for the seniormost FO to upgrade. It's personal preference, based on quality of life. If you have any FO positions listed before every possible CA position on your personal standing vacancy bid, then you've indicated this desire. Not often, but it happens.

However, even with no additional growth, all retirement-driven upgrades will go to those super-senior former AirTran FOs.

Bubba

 

[shagadelic]

We had this issue several years ago when we had a negative captain vacancy in the winter. I don't remember the exact number, but over 50 captains were downgraded. There were tons of guys senior to the remaining bottom captains, but stayed as FOs for months until we started hiring again. A friend of mine had just bid back to FO the month prior so he could control his schedule for a month or two, and ended up being stuck as an FO for a year.

Personally, I don't think we will have the same issue in 2015...Between hiring for retirements and growth for the wright amendment and international stuff out of Houston, I think upgrades will continue on indefinitely. Let's hope.

 

[jonjuan]

Reading your post, while on a 26 hour layover at a Caribbean island resort, really drives home how truly ignorant you are of what it's like over here. :laugh:

I'm going to the beach. Y'all have fun with this one.

Ty

Don't forget which part of the thong goes in front.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Don't forget which part of the thong goes in front.

If you have to think about it, it doesn't matter!

KBB

 

[ironspud]

"Lance" captain? Do you have Brevet captains too?

 

[Ty Webb]

Don't forget which part of the thong goes in front.

Teal-green speedo, with an a on the front, like Superman, bay-bee! :laugh:

Someone's gotta represent down here . . . you guys can represent in Harlingen.

 

[redflyer65]

Reading your post, while on a 26 hour layover at a Caribbean island resort, really drives home how truly ignorant you are of what it's like over here. :laugh:

I'm going to the beach. Y'all have fun with this one.

Ty

The beaches in and around Oakland/Alameda are nice too.

Not sure I'd venture out in a speedo there, unless that your thing. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Uppercrust]

Reading your post, while on a 26 hour layover at a Caribbean island resort, really drives home how truly ignorant you are of what it's like over here. :laugh:

I'm going to the beach. Y'all have fun with this one.

Ty

Exactly bro! Why waste time on here when there is a beach full of hot guys to be had!

 

[Ty Webb]

Uppercrud! My favorite male stalker. :laugh:

What time ya due back in Boy's Town?