AAEagle Future Expansion

[ch47fe]

Have the rules imposed on AAEagle been removed so they can expand their RJ fleet in the future?

My understanding of Eagle was during their 'boom' they were restricted to a certain number of jets. Are they still making money for the parent airline?

Does anyone think Eagle will start hiring in the next 16 months or so?

 

[FlyinBrian]

Does anyone think Eagle will start hiring in the next 16 months or so?

I'd say probably not.

The scope restrictions have not been lifted. AMR (parent company of Eagle and AA) has illegally circumvented the language by farming feed flying to other airlines. Do a search, and you will find a lot of info about this topic.

 

[Draginass]

American can expand their RJ fleet anytime they want without limit . . . . but they must be flown by AA pilots. Instead they pull service out of politically sensitive cities in hopes of influencing Washington to kill the RLA and force unilateral abrogation of scope contracts via legislation. It's not about RJ's . . . . it's about cheap labor and emasculating unions

 

[MINIME]

Listen everyone,

Don't believe this propaganda that the AE pilots are losing flying due to outsourcing. I for one have followed this subject due to the fact that alot of my old buddies are at CHQ and TSA. The people in STL are FLIYING routes that have ALWAYS belonged to them! They have not gone to SJU, DFW or any other AE hub and started taking over their flying. The problem as I see it, is the fact that APA is applying an ASM cap on AE. Therefore, for every CRJ700 they recieve they in turn have to park some other equipment in order to comply. I'm sure that many at AE would argue that they are entitled to the STL flying but why? Because now after 9/11 they have incurred furloughs and they just feel justified to go to another group and put them on the street! I think not. Also, as I understand it, before 9/11 AE had no problem with the Connection carriers since they couldn't even keep up with their own demand.

This is my view, we all deserve the chance to pay our bills

 

[Airline Pilot27]

here we go again

American Connection is a SCAM. It is AMR's way of disquising the error they made when they purchased TWA. They plan on exploiting us all against each other to keep us under there whip. Chitaqua and Transtates are nothing but pawns in AMR's union busting charades. Why have Eagle pilots fly when you can contract other lower paid pilots to do it. Simple economics to me. But that is precisely why we must make a stand against this.
Some of you want us to wait until we start seeing Connection at our hubs before we get upset? By then it will be too late. Your airlines are prospering at the expense of Eagle. You have 4 year jet Captains. We have 4 year FO's who can't hold a descent line at some of our bases. That is wrong...our own company is screwing us. We need to get our flying back. I truly don't fault the pilots. It is natural to react as you do and us as we do. We are not trying to put you guys on the street but are merely reacting to the threat of whipsawing once more. My predecessors in 97 signed a concessionary contract mainly because of whipsawing. We don't want it to happen to us again. All this bickering back and forth does nothing but vent a little anger. Lets wait till the mediator and arbitrator rule. I have to admit that this subject really pisses me off and normally I stay away from it. But I can't stand to hear someone say that we are selfish or just a bunch of whiners. Once you have dealt with some of the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** we have dealt with in this company, you would realize why we don't want to compete for AMR flying.

 

[TWA Dude]

Does anyone else see a pattern here? Management usually gets what they want -- one way or another. AMR has found ways around both the APA and Eagle scope provisions. We're dealing with an enemy that has the upper hand and our reaction is slow and ineffectual. Call me a cynic (which I certainly am) but I think the unions are completely clueless as to how to handle the current crisis in the aviation industry. And come to think of it, management ain't so competent either. Of course I hasten to add that I have no ideas forthcoming either. I think I'll have another beer...

 

[eaglefly]

Actually, the 14 EMJ 's in question will be flying many routes formerly flown by TWA pilots. Many of the TSA (and CHQ) pilots either refuse or are unwilling to see the real issue at hand. AMR's willingness to make "end run's" around labor agreements they negotiated in the first place.

One must not blame the Connection pilots though. Even though SOME are salivating over the the possible benefits of this situation, few understand the Eagle contract and what was promised for 16 years (no-one signs a 16-year agreement without a specific reason). Many (not all and those that are are either furloughees or hungry F/O's looking for upgrade) of these pilots see this issue as a "if its good for me, it good" issue.

Larger issues are at stake. AMR has circumvented the AA pilots contract by building Eagle far above what they represented to APA. Now they've found a cheaper source to not only screw Eagle but circumvent the AA pilots contract (ASM cap) even more. The APA and Eagle ALPA have to stand together and expose and defeat this before it gets out of control.

Hopefully, these two parties can do it together, because if one or both parties abandon the other than AMR wins by pitting one against the other. It's been succesful for them in the past.

 

[Cleared Direct]

Listen everyone,

Don't believe this propaganda that the AE pilots are losing flying due to outsourcing. I for one have followed this subject due to the fact that alot of my old buddies are at CHQ and TSA. The people in STL are FLIYING routes that have ALWAYS belonged to them! They have not gone to SJU, DFW or any other AE hub and started taking over their flying. The problem as I see it, is the fact that APA is applying an ASM cap on AE. Therefore, for every CRJ700 they recieve they in turn have to park some other equipment in order to comply. I'm sure that many at AE would argue that they are entitled to the STL flying but why? Because now after 9/11 they have incurred furloughs and they just feel justified to go to another group and put them on the street! I think not. Also, as I understand it, before 9/11 AE had no problem with the Connection carriers since they couldn't even keep up with their own demand.

This is my view, we all deserve the chance to pay our bills

It sounds like the only one who believes propaganda is you. And it is coming from your buds at CHQ and TSA. The people in STL are flying new routes that belonged to main line TWA/AA. TWA(AA) pilots have been hurt the worst by this whole American Connection thing in STL.

Eagle pilots and AA pilots have always had a problem with American Connection including before 9/11. The head of recruitment at Eagle was depositioned by the company for the scope arbitration and he said that Eagle could have staffed STL after the purchase of TWA. Guess what? The company never called him to testify.

No Eagle pilots want to put any other pilots on the street. They are simply fighting for their contractual right to an offer to fly the STL flying before it was contracted away.

American Connection is using an illegal reverse code share to circumvent not only the ASM restriction but also APA's scope clause. American Connection has not taken over any hub flying yet, but you can bet that will be next.

Paying your bills is one thing, but do it without violating someone elses contractual rights.

 

[Brother Francis]

Begs the question

"Paying your bills is one thing, but do it without violating someone elses contractual rights."

Without trying to give offense, the question is:

What specific actions would you have the TSA/CHQ/Mesa guys take in order to rectify this situation to your satisfaction?

 

[LAXSaabdude]

Re: Begs the question

What specific actions would you have the TSA/CHQ/Mesa guys take in order to rectify this situation to your satisfaction?

Nothing, really. I get kind of tired of some of my fellow Eagle pilots calling Connection pilots "scabs", when the definition doesn't fit, and there is nothing the Connection pilots can do, anyway.

I guess all we can ask of the Connection pilots is to stop calling us whiners and crybabies just because we are pursuing a just grievance through the proper channels.

BTW, Mesa is not a "Connection" carrier. Yet.....

LAXSaabdude

 

[FlyinBrian]

Minime, you are spouting off about a subject tha you obviously know very little about.

The people in STL are FLIYING routes that have ALWAYS belonged to them!

This is almost true. I would replace the word "always" with the word "previously" TSA and CHQ had contracts with TWA. TWA does not exist anymore. According to Eagle's contract with AMR (a company that still exists), Feed flying for AA must be provided by Eagle. That's what we accepted a 16 year contract for. The limitation on our growth is caused by AA scope, and not by the Connection carriers. However, AMR's use of the connection carriers undermines AA's contract AND Eagle's contract simultaneously.

TSA and CHQ are enabling AMR to violate their agreements with the two airlines on their won property. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, my beef is not with the TSA and CHQ pilots. But they no longer have a right to the former TWE flying, especially when that flying is allowing AMR to piss on their own pilots.

 

[DruDown]

Quit Pointing Fingers

The last time I checked, I had not power over my company to determine what new flying the company took. All I can do is fly the work assigned to me or quit/get fired. Not one line pilot out there has a say in the routes we take on, that is a management decision.

In business, the end goal is to make money, so obviously, any company is going to find the cheapest way to operate. Smaller companies are going to find ways to keep their costs down so others will use them - the free market.

ALPA and any other union is set up to protect pilots from THEIR OWN company, and keeping THEIR OWN company in check, hence each company has THEIR OWN MEC. ALPA National only provides resources (finanacial, legal, etc.) to each individual MEC.

Placing blame on pilots for flying work assigned to them WITHOUT it being "STRIKE WORK" is obviuosly incorrect. Placing blame on a smaller regional campany for picking up work is inaccurate as well, being that the company is only responsible for its own pilots and employees, not the employees of any other company. As long as the smaller regional company does not violate the rules at its company, picking up more routes is what it is supposed to so, grow and expand - it is in the interest of its own employees - its called running a good business.

All of the anger and bashing and energy put forth placing blame, figner pointing, name calling, etc. would be better spent dealing with your own MEC and your own company, making sure that the rules and contracts at your company are not being violated. Any outside company should not be held back from growing - unless it decides to fly struck work. Remember, only when there is a strike is there a scab.

No pilot at any company should have to defend his company's decision to code share with any other company and fly for them, unless it is struck work. It is competition that has made this country what it is - not restriction. Without competition we would have nothing and no room to negotiate.

So many people are so concerned with what others are doing rather than looking closer to home to solve the problems. TSA and CHQ are not the problem at Eagle. AMR is the problem at Eagle. TSA and CHQ pilots are helping their company grow legally on their end. If AMR breaks the law at Eagle, how are the guys at TSA anf CHQ supposed to know that, it's not their problem - their own company is their main issue.

Don't blame ALPA, blame your own MEC. It is your own MEC who deals with your company.

 

[VMC]

WAY TO GO

Way to go FlyinBrian and Cleared Direct. Tell
it like it is.
There was always a grievence against Connection prior to 9/11. I do not know how many times we say this but Connection can not get it through their heads.

As Brian is saying....I too have nothing against the pilots of Connection. It is the whole contract not being honored.

Hey Brian....I see you and I are furloughed and working back in a cubical.
What class date did you end up with?
I was on the line when I was let go.

 

[FlyinBrian]

I was hired August 6th.

I had just passed my sim check, and was scheduled to start aircraft training. I was hanging out in Dallas waiting for the FAA to allow aircraft training when they sent us home because they didn't know when they were going to be able to resume training. They called me the following day and told me to come back to Dallas with all my stuff because they were going to want it back. I was really hoping I'd be back by now. C'est la vie!!

 

[VMC]

Brian....
Hired in June
Flew the Jet
Working in a cubical doing what I use to do before becoming an instructor.

If you hear of anything, let me know and I'll do the same.

 

[FlyinBrian]

I will let you know. It's a tough market. I'm thinking about going back to instructing. I can't afford it, but this cubicle is slowly killing me.

 

[ready2push]

On one hand you say that you don't blame Connection pilots, yet you make statements like:

"Many of the TSA (and CHQ) pilots either refuse or are unwilling to see the real issue at hand."

"Paying your bills is one thing, but do it without violating someone elses contractual rights."

You're certainly entitled to feel the way you do. You're even entitled to bash Connection pilots--it's a free country. If that's the way you feel, say it without hiding behind disclaimers like, "I certainly don't blame Connection pilots, but (insert Scab/and or struck work innuendo here)"

If you hate Connection pilots that much, grow a frickn' pair and say it--it's certainly clear that it's what you mean!!

 

[Macondo]

recalls

FlyinBrian and Vmc

April 16 class here.
Spoke to Claudette Carol yesterday and she says the letter is in the mail. Looks like almost all of my class is getting one, what with all of the passes from the classes ahead of us. Hang in there guys, looks like we're finally starting to see some movement. Good Luck.

 

[waka]

DruDown....I agree with most of your post, however, just a small point........;

Fortunately, we don't have a true "free market". For the very reason of unchecked profit motive, the notion of self-policing or self-regulation by companies is preposterous. Competition AS WELL as restriction has made this country what it is.

Rampant capitalism is JUST AS insidious to society as rampant socialism. As to where these ever elusive lines are drawn to strike a balance will forever be debated.

 

[MINIME]

Hey CAPT CRUNCH,

You sure as hell show lots of intellegence yourself. Make your friggin point, rebutel for or against what I stated but I don't appreciate your errogance of calling me names! I admitt that I may not have every single fact straight given the fact that I'm not experiencing this trauma personally. What I expressed were opinions based on conversations that I have had with friends on one side of the isle admittedly. However, I'm tired of watching some people branding the Connection guys( As if they really have any control over what AMR or their own management does) as the group that's taking AE' s jobs from them!

Enlighten me with your history because more than likely I was in grade school back then!