AAA/AWA Integration...

[Crzipilot]

Well I believe the arbitrator has stated in previous decisions, something to the fact, Nobody has a crystal ball, so such/such company may have or may not have gone out of business. Fact of the matter is, both companies are here now and merging together. With that fact, take into account career progression, and even though I'm on furlough, progression at my carrier, had me making Capt. sooner than someone at the same relative seniority on the west side. True, at present day I'm on the street, but with the emerging retirements, whether it's as planned now, or pushed back 5 yrs. the end result is the same. A large vaccum on the east side sucking people up the list. As shown on the seniority progression chart, by 2014 the bottom guy at AWA was expected to be a block holding 757 f/o. Where as the bottom guy on the US list was expected to make capt 320. And at 2016 the West guy still wouldn't have been able to hold capt. In fact 2016, the individual about 200 numbers from the bottom, would just be at the point of possibly checking out, 2 years and 200 numbers above the West bottom guy.
So if you look beyond the immediate 1-2 years.....there's a huge windfall for the West side......as their movement up a combined list or relative seniority would be quite a bit quicker..

 

[Contract]

That was pretty Funny Crzipilot...Now put down the Crack Pipe.

You guys were hanging on by a thread. Thats what we love about you. Help us to help you! Help us to help you! You guys are alright...Great sense of humor.

 

[Hpilot]

Well I believe the arbitrator has stated in previous decisions, something to the fact, Nobody has a crystal ball, so such/such company may have or may not have gone out of business. Fact of the matter is, both companies are here now and merging together. With that fact, take into account career progression, and even though I'm on furlough, progression at my carrier, had me making Capt. sooner than someone at the same relative seniority on the west side. True, at present day I'm on the street, but with the emerging retirements, whether it's as planned now, or pushed back 5 yrs. the end result is the same. A large vaccum on the east side sucking people up the list. As shown on the seniority progression chart, by 2014 the bottom guy at AWA was expected to be a block holding 757 f/o. Where as the bottom guy on the US list was expected to make capt 320. And at 2016 the West guy still wouldn't have been able to hold capt. In fact 2016, the individual about 200 numbers from the bottom, would just be at the point of possibly checking out, 2 years and 200 numbers above the West bottom guy.
So if you look beyond the immediate 1-2 years.....there's a huge windfall for the West side......as their movement up a combined list or relative seniority would be quite a bit quicker..

Ah yeahhhhhh, 12 years to be a line holding 757 FO at America West before the merger. When we were hiring 10-20 a month. How can you guys even think anyone would believe that. That's not even mentioning your chart would have quit with the word liquidation.

 

[vetrider]

Well I believe the arbitrator has stated in previous decisions, something to the fact, Nobody has a crystal ball, so such/such company may have or may not have gone out of business. Fact of the matter is, both companies are here now and merging together. With that fact, take into account career progression, and even though I'm on furlough, progression at my carrier, had me making Capt. sooner than someone at the same relative seniority on the west side. True, at present day I'm on the street, but with the emerging retirements, whether it's as planned now, or pushed back 5 yrs. the end result is the same. A large vaccum on the east side sucking people up the list. As shown on the seniority progression chart, by 2014 the bottom guy at AWA was expected to be a block holding 757 f/o. Where as the bottom guy on the US list was expected to make capt 320. And at 2016 the West guy still wouldn't have been able to hold capt. In fact 2016, the individual about 200 numbers from the bottom, would just be at the point of possibly checking out, 2 years and 200 numbers above the West bottom guy.
So if you look beyond the immediate 1-2 years.....there's a huge windfall for the West side......as their movement up a combined list or relative seniority would be quite a bit quicker..

Then how come Nicolau made it clear he didn't like the east proposal? I'm not trying to jump on you with that, because I understand he didn't like the west proposal either. But the fact that he doesn't buy the east proposal does to me mean there is a flaw somewhere in the east mc argument that you just reiterated.

I don't think you or I can see the forest for all the trees. Nicolau will get to the bottom of it for us, thankfully.

 

[FDJ2]

I absolutely guarantee AAA would have been liquidated if not for AWA. The closing date of the merger was even moved up to facilitate AAA debt. Being that is the case it seems that any AAA pilot would be happy to even be on the bottom of any list.

The AAA acquisition did bring value to AWA. The combination of the two carriers has not only prevented AAA from liquidation, but it has made the new entity, LCC, a relatively strong airline. Something neither airline was before. So it can not be argued that AAA and its pilots have not brought something of value to the table, something that AWA wanted and that has in fact improved the career expectations of the AWA pilots.

 

[vetrider]

The AAA acquisition did bring value to AWA. The combination of the two carriers has not only prevented AAA from liquidation, but it has made the new entity, LCC, a relatively strong airline. Something neither airline was before. So it can not be argued that AAA and its pilots have not brought something of value to the table, something that AWA wanted and that has in fact improved the career expectations of the AWA pilots.

Very well said. Of course AAA brings much of value to the table, I would certainly never say otherwise. There is a happy medium somewhere, I just don't think that anyone from either property could ever find it, it will most definately take a third party, namely Nicolau.

From what I have heard, Nicolau is as good a guy to have as anyone. Not to say everyone will like what he comes up with, but I do think he will get as close to a sqaure deal for both sides as is humanly possible.

 

[Hpilot]

The AAA acquisition did bring value to AWA. The combination of the two carriers has not only prevented AAA from liquidation, but it has made the new entity, LCC, a relatively strong airline. Something neither airline was before. So it can not be argued that AAA and its pilots have not brought something of value to the table, something that AWA wanted and that has in fact improved the career expectations of the AWA pilots.

The only thing I've experienced so far is complete stagnation. I agree they brought a vast(but dysfunctional) east network and international flying, but I would expect to be fenced off of that.

 

[Vne]

I say hold a lottery.
Place all captains in one jar.(sub jars for eq.) and fo's in the other.
Start pulling out names. When done place captains list on top and fo's on bottom. Then each side can only be mad at fate.
Fair is fair.

 

[Crzipilot]

Well in the first post I made, I stated the board didn't like either proposal, why, none of us know. The arbitrator made the same statement during the US Shuttle integration.

As others stated, obviously AAA brought some value, What is it...60% or so of the revenue/profit comes from the East side. At the same time, I don't believe either side would have accomplished what is happening as stand alone.

Either way in a few months, none of this will matter, as he will come out with his decision, and as much as any of our views are slanted how things should turn out, depending on where we are on the seniority list. None of it matters, We'll all be pissed at the outcome.

 

[OnTheDole]

The AAA acquisition did bring value to AWA. The combination of the two carriers has not only prevented AAA from liquidation, but it has made the new entity, LCC, a relatively strong airline. Something neither airline was before. So it can not be argued that AAA and its pilots have not brought something of value to the table, something that AWA wanted and that has in fact improved the career expectations of the AWA pilots.

The acquisition did bring value to awa - awa shareholders that is. Until my seniority on the new list is set in stone it has only brought me stagnation. As a junior FO if I get placed below the furloughed it will bring NO value to me or my career, especially after this age 65 decision. Even if the new and improved company is much more financially stable – at best I will see total career stagnation, at worst be furloughed at the slightest hiccup.

Everyday a east captain sits in the left seat is a windfall for him.