AA/US ISL question

[Carl S.]

Sorry for the typo. Still think APA holds Usapa in a positive light after those recent court filings? Happy 420 days are here again...

 

[Turtle21]

Sorry for the typo. Still think APA holds Usapa in a positive light after those recent court filings? Happy 420 days are here again...

Never thought APA held any other pilot group in a positive light. I am OK that I will never be a reAAl pilot. We all have our own shortcomings and learn to live with it.

 

[B6Driver]

Never thought APA held any other pilot group in a positive light. I am OK that I will never be a reAAl pilot. We all have our own shortcomings and learn to live with it.

Don't feel too bad, the real "Hired not acquired" crowd don't like each other much either; Go figure.:nuts:

 

[Turtle21]

Don't feel too bad, the real "Hired not acquired" crowd don't like each other much either; Go figure.:nuts:

"I was an Air Force Fighter pilot. Everyone hates me, but its only because they are jealous." !

 

[Bringupthebird]

Things look rosey for Usapa after all those court Fillings this week?

Fillings is right. The BPR has got to be filling their britches about now.

My prediction is the the east BPR members find a way to go on LTD after APA takes over so that they never have to face the victims of their ill-conceived juggernaut and answer the question, "What about me? I sacrificed as much or more than the top 200 F/O's but I didn't get anything out of USAPA except an injunction and a weak, ineffective but obscenely expensive union."

Frankly, a few thousand hours of backpedaling for the next 15 years or so would be good for them.

 

[Metrojet]

You have a written receipt proving you paid $675 for a tie, and you get to wear it around your neck. But you have nothing in writing to prove your supposition about lost opportunity costs, other than a Leonidas publication sent to addresses that were stolen, causing the company to buy Lifelock for all.

Just admit it though, this isn't about ties or Lifelock, it's about upgrades and wide bodies, and that's why you guys have paid Marty millions trying to get them.

I heard that the lead attorney from the firm that AOL retained (Marty ) is not with the firm any more and is now representing AOL as an independent practitioner because AOL owes so much money to the firm?

Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?

 

[Metrojet]

I'm not gonna jump on the little nimrod, it's all he's got. Your tie cost you $675, his lanyard cost him about $150K. Comparison over.

Incorrect assumption - if he has upgraded in the last 3 years or so - his little yellow lanyard has returned an investment of almost $80,000 thru the end of 2013. And your $675 tie has lost you thousands if according to your logic - if the TA was passed with the "Kirby" proposal and NIC implemented - you would have had upgraded / and or gotten a hourly pay increase.

 

[Jim]

Lost $150k, gained $80k from upgrade, still in the hole $70k. Yup, that's a good return.

 

[TWA Dude]

Can anyone confirm or deny this rumor?

Thank you for your concern. Marty did leave the firm around fall of last year. No idea why but there's no change in our representation from him and Andy.

How long till the next "rumor" that AOL is broke surfaces?

 

[Metrojet]

Thank you for your concern. Marty did leave the firm around fall of last year. No idea why but there's no change in our representation from him and Andy.

How long till the next "rumor" that AOL is broke surfaces?

Thanks for confirming the rumor as true. No other rumors here.

Metrojet

 

[Bringupthebird]

Incorrect assumption - if he has upgraded in the last 3 years or so - his little yellow lanyard has returned an investment of almost $80,000 thru the end of 2013. And your $675 tie has lost you thousands if according to your logic - if the TA was passed with the "Kirby" proposal and NIC implemented - you would have had upgraded / and or gotten a hourly pay increase.

A whole lotta "ifs" there Jethrojet.

How about IF the east accepted the NIC and pressed immediately for a new contract with the full force of the unified pilot group behind it and IF that resulted in a MUCH improved first contract and IF that forced the company to up the MOU significantly in order to buy a smooth merger with AA and IF the east had the credibility to make relevant and meaningful contribution to the leadership of the new APA-controlled pilot union then everyone would have gained, not merely those who grabbed their embarrassing $125/hr gold stripe.

On the other hand, by defending to the death your lowest wages in the industry, you had a much better statistical chance of merging with someone who could have brought your wages up.

I'm sorry there's no one back east you can rely on to tell you the truth. Do you have a magnetic ribbon in the shape of a question mark on your car for Ignorance Awareness. Help find a cure before its too late!

 

[BeCareful!]

So, I see the idiotic spin and vitriol is still spewing here. Inflammatory rhetoric cranked up to 11! Jesus, what a pathetic waste of time. I'm glad I only drop by here once in a great while.

I just have a question related to the latest East bid: How does Date of Hire look now? Seriously, if you wake up tomorrow and decide to live in the here and now (fat chance, I understand), would it be so awful bad and viciously demeaning to assume your position based on the day you were hired at -- what was that place? -- oh yeah, America West Airlines (AKA: Commercial Aviation's Ultimate Powerhouse.)

OK....that's all. I'll stop by next month to read all the wise and considerate words this thought process generates. Enjoy your PHX narrow body flying.

 

[waveflyer]

Yes, be careful. Everyone should conveniently forget that usair was on the verge of dissolution. And forget their ever was a final and binding award between east and west.

You hope for that I know, but the rest of the industry hasn't forgotten

 

[Bringupthebird]

BeCareful would likely have had BeenUnemployed. Even though they may feel protected by No Bump No Flush, justice is only a hub re-alignment away. Keep a displacement bid on file!

Make sure you snap a selfie in your position before it vaporizes.

 

[Carl S.]

Doh=doa...

 

[dollacrackho]

I'd imagine if hell existed it would involve listening to the 4 or 5 of you that blather back and forth on here for eternity.

 

[TWA Dude]

No, there's something much worse: trying to fly for an airline under a "union" that actively works against you and is incompetent in every endeavor.

 

[Bad-Andy]

No, there's something much worse: trying to fly for an airline under a "union" that actively works against you and is incompetent in every endeavor.

How is it worse? If they are "incompetent in every endeavor," is it any worse that they work against you? It would seem to me that a competent union working against you would be even worse...

Okay, back to the bickering...

 

[St. Nic]

How is it worse? If they are "incompetent in every endeavor," is it any worse that they work against you? It would seem to me that a competent union working against you would be even worse...

Okay, back to the bickering...

Lol. Good point! The Westicles love to cry about every thing and truth be told they don't know how good they have it with Usapa. Let the APA take care of these vermins is what I say!

 

[Bringupthebird]

How is it worse? If they are "incompetent in every endeavor," is it any worse that they work against you? It would seem to me that a competent union working against you would be even worse...

At least you'd feel like you were getting something for your money. Even if you didn't want it. Paying for incompetence makes it worse.

On the plus side, it will be easy enough (though somewhat time consuming) to reverse the effects of USAPA.

 

[get2flyin]

Yes, be careful. Everyone should conveniently forget that usair was on the verge of dissolution. And forget their ever was a final and binding award between east and west.

You hope for that I know, but the rest of the industry hasn't forgotten

Shhh.... These are serious men doing serious work.

 

[get2flyin]

How is it worse? If they are "incompetent in every endeavor," is it any worse that they work against you? It would seem to me that a competent union working against you would be even worse...

Okay, back to the bickering...

Do you feel like USAPA has your back, Andy? I'm pretty sure you don't. I wish you'd gotten farther with your attempt at running for office. Frankly, I think we'd all have been better off if you'd gotten more support in your endeavour.

 

[Bad-Andy]

Do you feel like USAPA has your back, Andy? I'm pretty sure you don't. I wish you'd gotten farther with your attempt at running for office. Frankly, I think we'd all have been better off if you'd gotten more support in your endeavour.

Has my back? Or has a knife to shove in my back at an opportune time?

I was just giving TWA a hard time about "hell"... As for us being better off, call me a hopeless optimist, but I think we'll be better off soon. Once this merger is settled, regardless of the outcome, I'm hopeful that we'll all get along fine (except on these boards...). With the exception of a couple of crotchety old men, everyone I've dealt with over the past few years have been gentlemen -- even the ones that disagree with me completely. I'm willing to bet that it is the same once we start flying together. Interestingly, contrary to the insulting comments made on here, most East DoH guys are not "greedy scum" that simply want to steal jobs or are "duped" by USAPA leadership. Most are principled, Godly men that view defending their view of seniority (DoH) as a moral decision. We may disagree, but that doesn't make them evil or "scum," as some would suggest. There are certainly wounds that will take a while to heal (some people will never get over them) -- but I'm hopeful that over time we will all (thankfully) move on...

And besides, EVERYONE knows that hell is spending eternity on a crewbus with 70 year old long-haul F/A's (East OR West).......

 

[Bringupthebird]

This is civil war and each side has a completely different view of what the central issue is.

If we were to compare the USAirways civil war to the US civil war, it would be as though the North (east) had wanted slavery and had seceded from the union in defense of their equivalent of states rights and the South (west) was willing to fight against it to preserve the union and what they felt were the Founders principals (honoring the Nic agreement in this case) . We would today be a slave nation with those morally outraged by the practice forced to pay taxes to support a government that refuses to represent them.

Of course with the benefit of hindsight we know that slavery (subjugation of the west) would be unsustainable over the long haul, but in the short term the fight was bloody and left long-lasting scars (unrecoverable pay, benefits and time with family along with the complete elimination of camaraderie between pilots).

Andy, I think you cloud the issue. Yes we may get past the disagreement when it is finally resolved, but what may never get past is the damage to men's lives caused by prosecuting them in court over made-up claims. Had USAPA decided to withhold collecting dues until the seniority issue was settled and paid for their own defense, I think the reconciliation you hope for would have a better chance.

 

[LearLove]

This has to be the most stupid post ever on this board. Perhaps on any Internet board since Mr. Gore plugged it in.

I honestly don't know if I should laugh at it or be utterly embarrassed that someone I share the same profession with could write a post like this and then post it on a public forum.

Just what the hell are you smoking?

This is civil war and each side has a completely different view of what the central issue is.

If we were to compare the USAirways civil war to the US civil war, it would be as though the North (east) had wanted slavery and had seceded from the union in defense of their equivalent of states rights and the South (west) was willing to fight against it to preserve the union and what they felt were the Founders principals (honoring the Nic agreement in this case) . We would today be a slave nation with those morally outraged by the practice forced to pay taxes to support a government that refuses to represent them.

Of course with the benefit of hindsight we know that slavery (subjugation of the west) would be unsustainable over the long haul, but in the short term the fight was bloody and left long-lasting scars (unrecoverable pay, benefits and time with family along with the complete elimination of camaraderie between pilots).

Andy, I think you cloud the issue. Yes we may get past the disagreement when it is finally resolved, but what may never get past is the damage to men's lives caused by prosecuting them in court over made-up claims. Had USAPA decided to withhold collecting dues until the seniority issue was settled and paid for their own defense, I think the reconciliation you hope for would have a better chance.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Gee Lear if they hadn't held you back you might have made it into 5th grade history. I suppose when your head is in the sand everything goes over it!

 

[waveflyer]

I hate to say it
But any of these posts that take our contentions and compare it to slavery or the nazis or anything else is pretty dumb.
Nobody will torture, execute you, and rape your wife if you decide not to work for usair

 

[Scoot 11]

Lol. Good point! The Westicles love to cry about every thing and truth be told they don't know how good they have it with Usapa. Let the APA take care of these vermins is what I say!

Every time you open your nut drainer, you get more comical!
You eastholes are nothing more than Mesa grande!

 

[Dornier 335]

This has to be the most stupid post ever on this board. Perhaps on any Internet board since Mr. Gore plugged it in.

I honestly don't know if I should laugh at it or be utterly embarrassed that someone I share the same profession with could write a post like this and then post it on a public forum.

Just what the hell are you smoking?

What else do you expect from Grumpy? He recently boasted how dumb all Easties are for letting a fake pilot ride the jumpseat (without knowing the entire story). I am still undecided whether to use:

1. The dark side clouds everything (Yoda) or
2. Ignorance is strength (George Orwell)

I wonder if he is mentally fit enough to command an airplane...

 

[Carl S.]

It all comes down to honoring your agreements, if the Nic. was more to the radical Easties view, they would be preaching our battle cry from the mountain tops. We let a neutral third party decide our fate and one side does not want to live up to what they signed up for. Your word is not worth a cent, so how can we trust anything you say?