AA/US ISL question

[get2flyin]

Ah - I see
AOL would have settled for 33.3 % of Captain upgrades at "former east bases"?
Well - how many PHX upgrades were we going to get in return?
Since our merger - I can count on maybe both hands - the amount of pilots on the East who felt they were entitled to PHX CAP. Now how many of the West feel they are entitled to EAST CAP?
Just curious - how many West folks feel they should be narrow body CAP at current AA bases as well? It is really the same argument you could make now, if I were former West
Correction to the above - how many feel they should be wide body CAP at current AA bases?

No flame intended here - just having an exchange of information


Metrojet

66%, since it was basically a 2 East to 1 West ratio.

 

[Carl S.]

Easties are so blinded by hate and anger over their sad careers that they believe anything that makes their foes seem weak or misinformed... The truth is in your mirror, you overplayed your worth and look like your are headed down that road again.

 

[Turtle21]

When your desperate fellow east pilots threaten to publish a list of those who haven't paid for their fair share of the legal defense after they sue to block implementation of the M-B (AKA the Nic/APA) list, will you have the courage to call them yahoos, or will you be the one publishing the "weak sister" list?

...

Funny YOU should mention "shakedowns"..

Did you buy your obligatory $675 Tie? If you did your name is published, if not your name is missing on the Ferggie Fan page... Make sure you made the public list!!

Click the following link for the Push for Justice Good Boy List.. http://www.thepushforjustice.com/contributors.html

Over 1,000 West Pilots are conspicuously NOT on the list...That's a shortfall of at least $675,000 for the petty cash fund.. and some surprising names of "leaders" are missing from the list...

Funny you should worry yourself with speculating about future "shakedowns" that you obviously would not contribute to, but have no concern about shakedowns that cost you... maybe you don't have a tie.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Turtle ducks another question. Typical.

 

[Bringupthebird]

For all those who worship at the temple of "It's All about MckeE" ask yourselves who will be supporting the inevitable USAPA 2.0 legal defense when they are dismembered? Will it be the bulk of the pilots who gained nothing except lost wages from USAPA's previous "strategery" while a few took upgrades they were not entitled to, or will it be those folks who took what was determined not to be there's and have very little to gain from further litigation?

AOL was and is funded by those who are willing to let their checks reflect their principles and has repaid them in the thwarting of the USAPA juggernaut of tyranny.

USAPA has been funded by Agency Shop extortion and has repaid no one.

 

[Turtle21]

For all those who worship at the temple of "It's All about MckeE" ask yourselves who will be supporting the inevitable USAPA 2.0 legal defense when they are dismembered? Will it be the bulk of the pilots who gained nothing except lost wages from USAPA's previous "strategery" while a few took upgrades they were not entitled to, or will it be those folks who took what was determined not to be there's and have very little to gain from further litigation?

AOL was and is funded by those who are willing to let their checks reflect their principles and has repaid them in the thwarting of the USAPA juggernaut of tyranny.

USAPA has been funded by Agency Shop extortion and has repaid no one.

Your excitement is always about the future gloom of your opponents that have owned you for years. Any day now. Any day now...

What do the West merger committee members say about the SLI negotiations that were in full swing this week between USAPA and APA? Hmmmm...

 

[Turtle21]

Turtle ducks another question. Typical.

Are you on the $675 Liberty Necktie Good Pilot List? Or are you ducking the question....

I gave you the link to check for your name...


And I'll add the link to buy your $675 Tie in case you need to be added to the list.. You can duck me on a message board, but if you get caught walking through the PHX terminal (or worse, the CREW ROOM!!) without your Liberty Tie there will be no ducking for you. Do the right thing .

http://www.cactuspilotcontributors.com/libertynecktie.html

 

[waveflyer]

So random threads are moved to "general aviation" but we can't get these tired conversations banned. Isn't it expressly prohibited in the TOS to not devolve legit threads into the decade old east v west crap?

I've gone with thread drift more than most, but this one is the same crowd not changing anyone's opinion.

Any new SLI info more AA/APA oriented??

Can the APA bring some sanity and achieve a combined list?

 

[Dornier 335]

You are putting APA and sanity in the same sentence? That's like saying Kernals are chatting on Guard!

 

[TWA Dude]

Are you on the $675 Liberty Necktie Good Pilot List? Or are you ducking the question....

There's no such list. Wearing the tie will be the list.

Your concern for AOL's funding is touching but let me assure you we'll be fighting USAPA till its dying fart and if necessary whatever entity follows.

Will you be buying a yEastie tie to fund your fight against the APA?

 

[Turtle21]

There's no such list. Wearing the tie will be the list.

Your concern for AOL's funding is touching but let me assure you we'll be fighting USAPA till its dying fart and if necessary whatever entity follows.

Will you be buying a yEastie tie to fund your fight against the APA?

If I ever wear a $20 tie that I paid $675 for, you have my permission to laugh.

So you guys are planning another DFR court appearance... it will be #6. The funny thing is the more times Leonidas loses in court the fewer names appear on the "Contributor's List" to pay for it---and the mathematician would tell you to expect a hyperbolic curve.

 

[TWA Dude]

So you guys are planning another DFR court appearance...

Actually, no. USAPA will be long defunct before an oral hearing even gets scheduled.

 

[Turtle21]

Actually, no. USAPA will be long defunct before an oral hearing even gets scheduled.

Then why are you appealing Silver?

 

[TWA Dude]

Read the appeal when it's filed.

 

[Turtle21]

Read the appeal when it's filed.

I do enjoy perusing the comic section of the news paper. Unless the plaintiff gets a judgement in their favor, about 18-24 months from now, the comics will continue to have competition, as has been the case for six or seven years now.

I fully expect the West crack lawyer team to throw in a lot of issues and requests that are not within the jurisdiction of the appeals court, but what's new. This time its a "secret" that no one can know about until the appellant files (There are very few issues that can be appealed and the list is no secret.)

All the risk has been for the West, and nothing has changed. The end SLI result will not be Nic and it will not be DOH, but in the meantime it remains DOH.

Thankfully MB will fix this and by definition the fix will be fair and equitable. We will all move on. Let those who are content continue to be content and those who are bitter continue to be bitter. It was that way when I started this career and it will be that way when I finish.

Cheers

 

[dollacrackho]

Are guys actually wearing those dopey a $$ ties?

 

[TWA Dude]

Yes. I'm wearing mine and so's the captain on my trip.
The Easties have tried to break our solidarity from the beginning. They have not and shall never succeed.

 

[JumpersAway]

Solidarity? Can't you be solid without looking so unprofessional? Seriously, those ties are hideous. My favorite was the guy I saw sporting the big glass cactus pin- looked like a cactus at first, but with closer analysis it was a fist giving the middle finger. Between the chops he was wearing, the tie, and the pin, it was pretty bad. Must have been a former Mesa pilot.....................

 

[TWA Dude]

The tie is uniform compliant.

Frankly, I don't like the way it looks either. Within a few months it shouldn't be necessary in any case.

The East will soon be needing to raise money if they want to fight the APA. Wonder what they'll come up with?

 

[Carl S.]

You guys really left $250K minimum on the table to delay?

 

[Superbird]

Solidarity? Can't you be solid without looking so unprofessional? Seriously, those ties are hideous. My favorite was the guy I saw sporting the big glass cactus pin- looked like a cactus at first, but with closer analysis it was a fist giving the middle finger. Between the chops he was wearing, the tie, and the pin, it was pretty bad. Must have been a former Mesa pilot.....................

Are you a third lister? How many Mesa/Great Lakes/CoEx/Air Wisconsin pilots are working on the east? Do you "call them out"?

 

[Turtle21]

Things that make you go hmmmm...

After last week's updates by both APA and USAPA about seniority integration discussions....probably nothing, really.

Reconvening BPR Special Meeting Notice

Details Created on Monday, 28 April 2014 08:15
In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws Article 5, Section 3 C; and the Union Operating Manual Section 3 III; the Board of Pilot Representatives Special Meeting from April 23, 2014 will resume by telephone conference call today, Monday, April 28, 2014, at 1900 EDT and adjourn at 2200 EDT or the conclusion of business. The agenda remains as previously approved by the Board.

USAPA Communications

 

[St. Nic]

Hummmm is right! Sounds like the APA is getting on board and understanding what a problem the Westicles really are. Shouldn't be long now when the Nic is dead

 

[dollacrackho]

I think both sides are the problem. Mostly the easties. Wearing those ties though and calling guys scabs on vans is making me think the west is just as delusional.

 

[Turtle21]

Nothing To See Here. Move along please.

Board of Pilot Representatives Special Meeting

In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and Bylaws Article 5, Section 3 C; and the Union Operating Manual Section 3 III; the Board of Pilot Representatives Special Meeting from April 23, 2014 resumed by telephone conference call Monday, April 28, 2014, at 19:O0 EDT. The agenda remained as previously approved by the Board. The Officers, Board of Pilot Representatives, Merger Committee, Merger Counsel Pat Szymanski, General Counsel Brian O'Dwyer, and Communications were on the call. PHL Vice Chairman John Taylor joined the call at approximately 19:25.

At approximately 19:O3, President Gary Hummel called the meeting to order. He then turned the Chair over to VP Steve Bradford, since Steve had chaired the previous days of this special meeting. Steve briefly introduced the documents before the Board (the proposed Protocol Agreement, proposed Union Merger Transition Agreement, and proposed Global Settlement Agreement) and asked the Board to limit comments to 5 minutes at a time.

At approximately 19:O8, a motion to accept the proposed Protocol Agreement, which was previously sent to the Board by the Merger Committee, was moved/seconded by Stein/Dugstad.
After brief discussion, a motion to go into closed session was moved/seconded by Dugstad/Nelson and passed 6-4 (Yes - DCA, CLT, PHL Music; No - PHX, PHL DiOrio).

At approximately 21:17, the Board returned to open session, and after an editorial change, the following resolution passed 7-4 (Yes - PHL, DCA, CLT Borman, Nelson; No - PHX, CLT Frear).

Merger Documents


BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives approves the proposed Protocol Agreement and Settlement Agreement as presented by the Merger Committee,

BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives approves the proposed Merger Transition Agreement as amended.
President Gary Hummel then brought before the Board the urgent need for a Consultant Contract for Dr. Pete Lambrou, AME, to assist the Safety and Accident Investigation Committees, relating to the current investigation of the PHL rejected takeoff.

At approximately 21:23, a motion to go into closed session was moved/seconded by Scherff/Ferguson and passed unanimously. After approximately 10 minutes, the Board returned to open session and discussed provisions of the consultant contract.

A motion to approve the following resolution was moved/seconded by Taylor/Nelson.

Dr. Pete Lambrou
BE IT RESOLVED THAT the Board of Pilot Representatives directs the Consulting Contract for Dr. Pete Lambrou be amended to place a $40,000 limit, to be monitored by the Executive Vice President, and any additional expenditures to be approved by the Board of Pilot Representatives.
Before the vote was completed, the call system terminated the call at 22:O0.
USAPA Communications

 

[ALGFLYR]

While it's too early to tell, I see this as a positive development. It will be interesting to see these actual documents.

So, judging the "book by its cover", I think the "Protocol Agreement" will define the process of the actual process of merging the lists, to include how arbitration will occur if necessary.

The second document was interesting. The proposed "Union Merger Transition Agreement". Just guessing, but it sounds like a document defining exactly what USAPA's role will be in the near future. The MOU clearly says that the APA will be the new union once the NMB rules. But it also clearly says "in regards to the JCBA negotiations"... I think USAPA will remain for SLI purposes only. I think this document will define how USAPA will be funded and the disposition of funds already in the USAPA bank. Maybe the dues collected from US Airways pilots will be split somehow...

The third document is the "Global Settlement Agreement". I can see this document defining how several legal aspects will be handled, such as the dropping of certain lawsuits currently working their way through the court system...

These are just guesses...

 

[TWA Dude]

There's something glaringly obvious missing from the USAPA propaganda: the APA. All it says is USAPA has agreed to its proposal. Nowhere is it mentioned that the APA is anywhere near in agreement.

Everyone knows USAPA is gone very soon. Why would the APA agree to anything now? Nothing's changed since the talks ended in February. Methinks there's no agreement with the APA and the BPR (excepting the PHX reps) is just trying to appear relevant -- and failing.

 

[Turtle21]

There's something glaringly obvious missing from the USAPA propaganda: the APA. All it says is USAPA has agreed to its proposal. Nowhere is it mentioned that the APA is anywhere near in agreement.

Everyone knows USAPA is gone very soon. Why would the APA agree to anything now? Nothing's changed since the talks ended in February. Methinks there's no agreement with the APA and the BPR (excepting the PHX reps) is just trying to appear relevant -- and failing.

Yes, the APA has not agreed to an SLI Protocol Agreement, and if they continue to reject reaching a negotiated alternative to the MB arbitration process, that will not be a problem.

 

[ALGFLYR]

There's something glaringly obvious missing from the USAPA propaganda: the APA. All it says is USAPA has agreed to its proposal. Nowhere is it mentioned that the APA is anywhere near in agreement.

Everyone knows USAPA is gone very soon. Why would the APA agree to anything now? Nothing's changed since the talks ended in February. Methinks there's no agreement with the APA and the BPR (excepting the PHX reps) is just trying to appear relevant -- and failing.

I agree we have not yet seen much from the APA. It would be nice to see some more info from their side.

As far as the talks ended in Feb. well, I don't quite believe that. While the APA has always been very tight lipped in public about their negotiations, they did reveal on April 22nd that they were still negotiating. During their special meeting last week, the Board of Directors received a closed session briefing from "Seniority Integration Committee Chairman CA Mark Stephens regarding efforts to reach an agreement on a seniority merger protocol with USAPA"

Here is a link to the update: https://public.alliedpilots.org/apa/AboutAPA/APAPublicNews/tabid/843/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/4375/Referendum-Ballot-Count-Ongoing.aspx

That certainly doesn't sound like talks broke off in February... Do you think that's what that means??

 

[TWA Dude]

That certainly doesn't sound like talks broke off in February... Do you think that's what that means??

Um, they made a public announcement that there's an impasse. JCBA prep talks are certainly in progress so it's not like all contact broke off. I don't think anything of consequence took place regarding the SLI.
Don't forget I'm an APA member and I frequent their message board. Not a peep about this.

Like everyone else they're just waiting for the NMB ruling to end the USAPA nightmare.