AA recall rumors/gossip

[bizicmo]

The AE flow-ups that were forced on AA by the arbitrators decision generally had a tough time in training, despite helpful, fair and honest instruction. A lot of those guys have very narrow experience (50 seat RJs at best) and no big airplane experience and were having trouble with even the MD-80 and 737 school (none have gone thru the 757/767 program which is much more difficult). Many had lots of additional training required. Failure rate is about 10% from what I hear, at least so far. That seems to be much higher than traditional off-the-street hiring, but off-the-streeters usually have more breadth of experience in a wider range of larger and more complex aircraft than commuter pilots.

But keep in mind that the sample size so far is fairly small, so statistically it's not definitive.

Who is AA hiring, that aren't commuter pilots, but fly larger and more complex aircraft? AE has 70 seats right?

 

[aa73]

"Big airplane experience" is a misnomer. The Jetstreams I used to fly, and the weather conditions through which I flew them, were far more challenging than the jets I fly now. Also, the resources made available to legacy 121 pilots are much more plentiful than the bare bones stuff we had at the commuters.

 

[PFTEXPJET]

Do you know how many B1900 drivers were hired at AMR?......I know 12...

so your training vs experience........is B.S........
Eagle RJ vs outsiders

Anyone that flew the B1900 would never make this statement. The 1900 does not have autopilot and with the exception of the Florida Gulf guys, that plane is flown in the NE, Midwest and northern midwest. That means small airport, poor to nil braking action, NBD arc, Vor's and Loc BC. A lot of 3585 and no flight director. So any pilot that comes from this plane knows how to hand fly an airplane, knows how to fly in weather, not around in, knows how to fly 10 to 15 different approaches, knows how to land and taxi on a nil runway called poor. Flying the 1900 was the best thing for my career. Having flown the B1900D, an RJ and now the B757/767, your statement is false.

 

[PFTEXPJET]

At AA, I have several friends that have been called and they were told by the person calling that the ratio is 1 to 8 and growing. Some of my friends were not expecting a call for years, one is 800+ on the recall list. I do not know what this means for new hires or AE pilots but it great to know that pilots have options.

 

[BoilerUP]

So any pilot that comes from this plane knows how to hand fly an airplane, knows how to fly in weather, not around in, knows how to fly 10 to 15 different approaches, knows how to land and taxi on a nil runway called poor.

All great operational experience that doesn't mean jack when simulator training & checking on a substantially larger, highly automated jet.

 

[Full of LUV]

- More guys older than 50 than younger. Possibly 10 guys max younger than 40. Many hitting 60+ in the ranks

Heard the AMR opener suggested savings of millions by exempting Viagra in Pilot prescription coverage for new contract.....

 

[sniper]

Do you know how many B1900 drivers were hired at AMR?......I know 12...

so your training vs experience........is B.S........
Eagle RJ vs outsiders

Anyone that flew the B1900 would never make this statement. The 1900 does not have autopilot and with the exception of the Florida Gulf guys, that plane is flown in the NE, Midwest and northern midwest. That means small airport, poor to nil braking action, NBD arc, Vor's and Loc BC. A lot of 3585 and no flight director. So any pilot that comes from this plane knows how to hand fly an airplane, knows how to fly in weather, not around in, knows how to fly 10 to 15 different approaches, knows how to land and taxi on a nil runway called poor. Flying the 1900 was the best thing for my career. Having flown the B1900D, an RJ and now the B757/767, your statement is false.

Indeed....best a/c to learn.....you took my statement in the wrong way.
I agree. Just read my post as a positive. Many 1900 drivers did just fine during their training with the majors. You dont have to have heavy experience on order to pass AMR training as it was said

 

[spacecadet1]

I think you want to stay away from AA. Look at SW when they start hiring again. Or Fed-ex and UPS. Sw FO's are making more than AA Captains; sad but true.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Space, yes that is true but you need to look to the future. If I was a 20 something pilot, I would not hesitate to go to AA. You will be on a seniority elevator in about 10 years. If you went to SWA, you would be doing a slow climb to the left seat.

 

[aa73]

Sw FO's are making more than AA Captains; sad but true.

Ummm, not quite. Top SWA F/O pay is $147/hr... bottom AA CA pay is $161/hr not to mention the retirement. I know, I know, they aren't far off... just trying to keep the facts straight here.

And yes, only reason to come here to AA would be the explosive trip up the seniority list when it starts taking off.

 

[PFTEXPJET]

Sniper
Indeed....best a/c to learn.....you took my statement in the wrong way.
I agree. Just read my post as a positive. Many 1900 drivers did just fine during their training with the majors. You dont have to have heavy experience on order to pass AMR training as it was said

Sniper, sorry, my fault.

 

[FO 4 Life]

Ummm, not quite. Top SWA F/O pay is $147/hr... bottom AA CA pay is $161/hr not to mention the retirement. I know, I know, they aren't far off... just trying to keep the facts straight here.

And yes, only reason to come here to AA would be the explosive trip up the seniority list when it starts taking off.

Somebody, anybody needs a big A$$ contract in the next couple of years.

Selfish on my part, I know. FOs above 185 and captains higher than 261.

 

[777forever]

The AE flow-ups that were forced on AA by the arbitrators decision generally had a tough time in training, despite helpful, fair and honest instruction. A lot of those guys have very narrow experience (50 seat RJs at best) and no big airplane experience and were having trouble with even the MD-80 and 737 school (none have gone thru the 757/767 program which is much more difficult). Many had lots of additional training required. Failure rate is about 10% from what I hear, at least so far. That seems to be much higher than traditional off-the-street hiring, but off-the-streeters usually have more breadth of experience in a wider range of larger and more complex aircraft than commuter pilots.

But keep in mind that the sample size so far is fairly small, so statistically it's not definitive.

You are full of that stuff that people drop in the toilet. An airplane is an airplane.

 

[spacecadet1]

Ummm, not quite. Top SWA F/O pay is $147/hr... bottom AA CA pay is $161/hr not to mention the retirement. I know, I know, they aren't far off... just trying to keep the facts straight here.

And yes, only reason to come here to AA would be the explosive trip up the seniority list when it starts taking off.

I don't see it taking off, despite rumors. I see them continuing to give away domestic to JB, and trying to make an end run and give the hypothetical 100 seater to eagle.

 

[spacecadet1]

APA will also probably create a new B scale with no pension and even crappier pay to dump on future new hires.

 

[Flyby1206]

I think you want to stay away from AA. Look at SW when they start hiring again. Or Fed-ex and UPS. Sw FO's are making more than AA Captains; sad but true.

Ok... SWA pilots are the highest paid, most productive pilots in the industry. So where do you go from there?

I remember not too long ago when certain mainline groups had that same mentality as "I am the greatest ever" and it didnt end well for them.

 

[aa73]

I don't see it taking off, despite rumors. I see them continuing to give away domestic to JB, and trying to make an end run and give the hypothetical 100 seater to eagle.

They can only give away so much in codeshare. If they give away too much, they start losing too much market share in a kind of reverse economy of scale, and they get to a point where even revenues from the codeshare do not make up for the loss of market share. Not gonna happen. AMR WILL grow, exponentially.

The 100 seater already belongs to us. It would be up to us to give it away. And trust me, scope is the NUMBER ONE issue in this contract.

This company is going to go nuclear with growth. They've already let the cat out of the bag in regards to that. You can expect to see an aircraft order soon, prob a mix of widebodies and narrowbodies. The 100 seat aircraft that they desperately need WILL be flown by AA pilots. It's as important to us as pay and retirement, and will not be given up. And this will all be accomplished WITH a hefty pay restoration. Simple, AA pilots have the leverage now.

Growth, along with retirements, are going to produce the kind of movement and CA upgrades not seen since the 1980s within the next few years here.

 

[spacecadet1]

They can only give away so much in codeshare. If they give away too much, they start losing too much market share in a kind of reverse economy of scale, and they get to a point where even revenues from the codeshare do not make up for the loss of market share. Not gonna happen. AMR WILL grow, exponentially.

The 100 seater already belongs to us. It would be up to us to give it away. And trust me, scope is the NUMBER ONE issue in this contract.

This company is going to go nuclear with growth. They've already let the cat out of the bag in regards to that. You can expect to see an aircraft order soon, prob a mix of widebodies and narrowbodies. The 100 seat aircraft that they desperately need WILL be flown by AA pilots. It's as important to us as pay and retirement, and will not be given up. And this will all be accomplished WITH a hefty pay restoration. Simple, AA pilots have the leverage now.

Growth, along with retirements, are going to produce the kind of movement and CA upgrades not seen since the 1980s within the next few years here.

Hope you're right, but I'm thinking you've been smoking too much DFW dope.

 

[aa73]

Hope you're right, but I'm thinking you've been smoking too much DFW dope.

Nope, sorry, I'm not a DFW management lackey, far from it... I'm an APA SPC volunteer and hard core unionist who just happens to look at cold hard business facts... and the facts are that AMR has been shocked into reality and will now spend the next few years playing catch up... which means a lot of growth for us (and leverage for our pilots.)

 

[cldsfr79]

The AE flow-ups that were forced on AA by the arbitrators decision generally had a tough time in training, despite helpful, fair and honest instruction. A lot of those guys have very narrow experience (50 seat RJs at best) and no big airplane experience and were having trouble with even the MD-80 and 737 school (none have gone thru the 757/767 program which is much more difficult). Many had lots of additional training required. Failure rate is about 10% from what I hear, at least so far.

Yeah because flying a 737 is so much harder than an rj. It always makes me laugh when I read job requirements requesting "heavy jet time" and that rj time or private jets don't make the cut. It's safe to say that my corporate jet I fly has the same automation, higher climb rate (thrust to weight ratio), and matched speed as a 737, but it doesn't count because it's not heavy enough.

I would like to see the AA heavy drives get in an Eagle Saab or ATR and fly 6 legs a day with the autopilot deferred. I've done the Saab and it was far more challenging with it's dated systems and flight characteristics than any jet I've flown. Also the Saab ground school was a nightmare compared to the jets I've flown.

Just my two cents.