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AA recall rumors/gossip

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Sniper
Indeed....best a/c to learn.....you took my statement in the wrong way.
I agree. Just read my post as a positive. Many 1900 drivers did just fine during their training with the majors. You dont have to have heavy experience on order to pass AMR training as it was said


Sniper, sorry, my fault.
 
Ummm, not quite. Top SWA F/O pay is $147/hr... bottom AA CA pay is $161/hr not to mention the retirement. I know, I know, they aren't far off... just trying to keep the facts straight here.

And yes, only reason to come here to AA would be the explosive trip up the seniority list when it starts taking off.

Somebody, anybody needs a big A$$ contract in the next couple of years.

Selfish on my part, I know. FOs above 185 and captains higher than 261.
 
The AE flow-ups that were forced on AA by the arbitrators decision generally had a tough time in training, despite helpful, fair and honest instruction. A lot of those guys have very narrow experience (50 seat RJs at best) and no big airplane experience and were having trouble with even the MD-80 and 737 school (none have gone thru the 757/767 program which is much more difficult). Many had lots of additional training required. Failure rate is about 10% from what I hear, at least so far. That seems to be much higher than traditional off-the-street hiring, but off-the-streeters usually have more breadth of experience in a wider range of larger and more complex aircraft than commuter pilots.

But keep in mind that the sample size so far is fairly small, so statistically it's not definitive.

You are full of that stuff that people drop in the toilet. An airplane is an airplane.
 
Ummm, not quite. Top SWA F/O pay is $147/hr... bottom AA CA pay is $161/hr not to mention the retirement. I know, I know, they aren't far off... just trying to keep the facts straight here.

And yes, only reason to come here to AA would be the explosive trip up the seniority list when it starts taking off.

I don't see it taking off, despite rumors. I see them continuing to give away domestic to JB, and trying to make an end run and give the hypothetical 100 seater to eagle.
 
I think you want to stay away from AA. Look at SW when they start hiring again. Or Fed-ex and UPS. Sw FO's are making more than AA Captains; sad but true.

Ok... SWA pilots are the highest paid, most productive pilots in the industry. So where do you go from there?

I remember not too long ago when certain mainline groups had that same mentality as "I am the greatest ever" and it didnt end well for them.
 
I don't see it taking off, despite rumors. I see them continuing to give away domestic to JB, and trying to make an end run and give the hypothetical 100 seater to eagle.

They can only give away so much in codeshare. If they give away too much, they start losing too much market share in a kind of reverse economy of scale, and they get to a point where even revenues from the codeshare do not make up for the loss of market share. Not gonna happen. AMR WILL grow, exponentially.

The 100 seater already belongs to us. It would be up to us to give it away. And trust me, scope is the NUMBER ONE issue in this contract.

This company is going to go nuclear with growth. They've already let the cat out of the bag in regards to that. You can expect to see an aircraft order soon, prob a mix of widebodies and narrowbodies. The 100 seat aircraft that they desperately need WILL be flown by AA pilots. It's as important to us as pay and retirement, and will not be given up. And this will all be accomplished WITH a hefty pay restoration. Simple, AA pilots have the leverage now.

Growth, along with retirements, are going to produce the kind of movement and CA upgrades not seen since the 1980s within the next few years here.
 
They can only give away so much in codeshare. If they give away too much, they start losing too much market share in a kind of reverse economy of scale, and they get to a point where even revenues from the codeshare do not make up for the loss of market share. Not gonna happen. AMR WILL grow, exponentially.

The 100 seater already belongs to us. It would be up to us to give it away. And trust me, scope is the NUMBER ONE issue in this contract.

This company is going to go nuclear with growth. They've already let the cat out of the bag in regards to that. You can expect to see an aircraft order soon, prob a mix of widebodies and narrowbodies. The 100 seat aircraft that they desperately need WILL be flown by AA pilots. It's as important to us as pay and retirement, and will not be given up. And this will all be accomplished WITH a hefty pay restoration. Simple, AA pilots have the leverage now.

Growth, along with retirements, are going to produce the kind of movement and CA upgrades not seen since the 1980s within the next few years here.

Hope you're right, but I'm thinking you've been smoking too much DFW dope.
 
Hope you're right, but I'm thinking you've been smoking too much DFW dope.

Nope, sorry, I'm not a DFW management lackey, far from it... I'm an APA SPC volunteer and hard core unionist who just happens to look at cold hard business facts... and the facts are that AMR has been shocked into reality and will now spend the next few years playing catch up... which means a lot of growth for us (and leverage for our pilots.)
 
The AE flow-ups that were forced on AA by the arbitrators decision generally had a tough time in training, despite helpful, fair and honest instruction. A lot of those guys have very narrow experience (50 seat RJs at best) and no big airplane experience and were having trouble with even the MD-80 and 737 school (none have gone thru the 757/767 program which is much more difficult). Many had lots of additional training required. Failure rate is about 10% from what I hear, at least so far.

Yeah because flying a 737 is so much harder than an rj. It always makes me laugh when I read job requirements requesting "heavy jet time" and that rj time or private jets don't make the cut. It's safe to say that my corporate jet I fly has the same automation, higher climb rate (thrust to weight ratio), and matched speed as a 737, but it doesn't count because it's not heavy enough.

I would like to see the AA heavy drives get in an Eagle Saab or ATR and fly 6 legs a day with the autopilot deferred. I've done the Saab and it was far more challenging with it's dated systems and flight characteristics than any jet I've flown. Also the Saab ground school was a nightmare compared to the jets I've flown.

Just my two cents.
 
The AE guys coming over who already have seniority numbers aren't spring chickens. I would say they fit with the AA demographics being mostly between 47-57.

If Eagle is sold the guys with numbers still flow, but I believe the 824 guys that are supposed to be brought over with newhires off the street would be in jeopardy.

The 824 ARE included in the flow with newbies......eventually ,there will be over a thousand AE pilots at AA.....
 
Nope, sorry, I'm not a DFW management lackey, far from it... I'm an APA SPC volunteer and hard core unionist who just happens to look at cold hard business facts... and the facts are that AMR has been shocked into reality and will now spend the next few years playing catch up... which means a lot of growth for us (and leverage for our pilots.)


What cities/bases do you expect the growth? How many airframes, total, do you foresee on the property (not including Eagle)?

stlflyguy
 
Stlflyguy.... From what we've been told, AA will focus on the "cornerpost" hubs (JFK, MIA, DFW, LAX) which is where they are most profitable. I'd say JFK, MIA and LAX will see a lot of growth, slightly less at DFW. ORD seems to be the big if, I think AMR will stay constant there since they have not been as profitable there competing against UACO/Star.

Regarding fleet, lots of changes coming up. There will most likely be a new fleet coming on to the property soon - think 777-300 or along those lines - along with the the much needed 100 seat gap filler, and also replacements for the domestic 757s (which are costing a lot of $$$ in maintenance due to expired warranties.)

Needless to say, there will be a lot of movement coming up in the next few years.
 
Yeah because flying a 737 is so much harder than an rj. It always makes me laugh when I read job requirements requesting "heavy jet time" and that rj time or private jets don't make the cut. It's safe to say that my corporate jet I fly has the same automation, higher climb rate (thrust to weight ratio), and matched speed as a 737, but it doesn't count because it's not heavy enough.

I would like to see the AA heavy drives get in an Eagle Saab or ATR and fly 6 legs a day with the autopilot deferred. I've done the Saab and it was far more challenging with it's dated systems and flight characteristics than any jet I've flown. Also the Saab ground school was a nightmare compared to the jets I've flown.

Just my two cents.

Wow...impressive, dont think I could handle it.

;>

fv
 
In fact...you are 100% correct (and I am not being facetious)...there is no F&%^$@g way I could/would fly 6 legs a day with no autopilot on a Tprop....because by leg two I would have called in sick or told the CP to do it himself or....oh never mind

;>

fv
 
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Not so dude,

They finally pay you what you're worth, you would change your lifestyle and fly the flights. We all would. Instead they will try to belittle you and downgrade, offset, outsource our jobs till all flights are RJ's with multiple stops, or legs and you are doing it for 1/500 the amount. Either way, we must continue to do the crappy flying along with the crown jewel legs.

Don't forget, somewhere on the planet, chicks dig pilots!
 
No slots left at JFK!

However, you could buy jetblue, get slots, another new terminal, MD-80 replacements in the 320 and 100 seat jets in the 190, plus a great purchase price on more 190's. Additionally, the jetblue pilots are non unionized, so you can probably do with them as you please!
 
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Or knowing amrs past history of poor descions they merge with usair and then close bases:puke:



Nope, sorry, I'm not a DFW management lackey, far from it... I'm an APA SPC volunteer and hard core unionist who just happens to look at cold hard business facts... and the facts are that AMR has been shocked into reality and will now spend the next few years playing catch up... which means a lot of growth for us (and leverage for our pilots.)
 
aa73,

I hope your right. My problem is that I have no confidence in the senior managment. They've sucked as we've shrunk and I predict they will suck as we grow. Ever see Arpey in person? any pilot can bamboozle him with a question that will have him looking at the floor while he tries to imagine putting on a poker face. That's where Hettermann learned his filibuster skills. When you're clueless, talk about nothing.

If you tried that with Crandall or Bob Baker, you'd be carved and cooked in under 15 seconds, and they'd proceed to do that to 75 other pilots asking questions until everyone was bloodied. They knew their sheet.
 
aa73,

I hope your right. My problem is that I have no confidence in the senior managment. They've sucked as we've shrunk and I predict they will suck as we grow. Ever see Arpey in person? any pilot can bamboozle him with a question that will have him looking at the floor while he tries to imagine putting on a poker face. That's where Hettermann learned his filibuster skills. When you're clueless, talk about nothing.

If you tried that with Crandall or Bob Baker, you'd be carved and cooked in under 15 seconds, and they'd proceed to do that to 75 other pilots asking questions until everyone was bloodied. They knew their sheet.

Maybe they should merge with US Air they already have an Arpey. He might be able to merge the 2 airlines in a decade.
 
aa73,

I hope your right. My problem is that I have no confidence in the senior managment. They've sucked as we've shrunk and I predict they will suck as we grow. Ever see Arpey in person? any pilot can bamboozle him with a question that will have him looking at the floor while he tries to imagine putting on a poker face. That's where Hettermann learned his filibuster skills. When you're clueless, talk about nothing.

If you tried that with Crandall or Bob Baker, you'd be carved and cooked in under 15 seconds, and they'd proceed to do that to 75 other pilots asking questions until everyone was bloodied. They knew their sheet.

Hey, I agree... I have no confidence in management, either. What I do know is that even our clueless management has been backed into a corner and must strike out in the only way possible - grow. I'm just hoping we pick up a visionary CEO at some point.
 
No slots left at JFK!

However, you could buy jetblue, get slots, another new terminal, MD-80 replacements in the 320 and 100 seat jets in the 190, plus a great purchase price on more 190's. Additionally, the jetblue pilots are non unionized, so you can probably do with them as you please!

I think you've pretty much nailed it... I would not at all be surprised to see a deal/merger/buyout with Jetblue.
 
I think you've pretty much nailed it... I would not at all be surprised to see a deal/merger/buyout with Jetblue.

That would be an ugly integration for the jetblue guys. Even with DOH it would be a staple job. Maybe they will get lucky and have Eagle stapled below the jetblue guys.
 
Yeah because flying a 737 is so much harder than an rj. It always makes me laugh when I read job requirements requesting "heavy jet time" and that rj time or private jets don't make the cut. It's safe to say that my corporate jet I fly has the same automation, higher climb rate (thrust to weight ratio), and matched speed as a 737, but it doesn't count because it's not heavy enough.

I would like to see the AA heavy drives get in an Eagle Saab or ATR and fly 6 legs a day with the autopilot deferred. I've done the Saab and it was far more challenging with it's dated systems and flight characteristics than any jet I've flown. Also the Saab ground school was a nightmare compared to the jets I've flown.

Just my two cents.

Having done 8 leg days in the non-AP E110 and SD360 and flying the 767, I believe I'm qualified to speak on this subject.

If you haven't done it, don't make statements like you did. You don't know jack $h!t about flying a 400,000 lb. airplane. The Citation and Beechjet don't exactly bump up your large jet flying street cred. It's the 'momentum' that gets you.

The 757/767 is the toughest airplane I've ever had to learn--I've got 4,000 hours on the damned thing and I still don't know it as well as I do the others I've flown. The 757 will get you in a box down low because it's just so clean and won't slow down if you're light. ATC is always pushing us to keep the speed up and it takes one hiccup to get you out of your descent profile and you're assh0les and elbows all the way in trying to slow.

Someone once told me the -80 was really slick and won't slow down and go down. It comes down like a brick compared to the 757.

Not trying to give you a beatdown--you'll learn. We all have gone through this--eventually, you know what you don't know. But, don't dive in the deep end if you aren't a good swimmer.

TC

P.S.--When I was looking at Emirates, they wouldn't accept GV/GIV PIC time. I understand. If that's the biggest airplane you've flown, you ARE a risk for training failure compared to some guy with 3,000 hours of 737 time. There IS a difference.
 
Yeah because flying a 737 is so much harder than an rj. It always makes me laugh when I read job requirements requesting "heavy jet time" and that rj time or private jets don't make the cut. It's safe to say that my corporate jet I fly has the same automation, higher climb rate (thrust to weight ratio), and matched speed as a 737, but it doesn't count because it's not heavy enough.

I would like to see the AA heavy drives get in an Eagle Saab or ATR and fly 6 legs a day with the autopilot deferred. I've done the Saab and it was far more challenging with it's dated systems and flight characteristics than any jet I've flown. Also the Saab ground school was a nightmare compared to the jets I've flown. /QUOTE]

I'll play.

I've got 2800 hrs, and a worthless type, in a BAe3200 at TSA. No A/P, no YD, no elect trim, no lav. I also have a type in a BAe4100, also worthless. I went from the j41 to the L10 at ATA (1600 hrs). Hardest airplane I've ever learned, but the best hand-flying airplane I ever flew. I have a B757 type, easiest airplane I've ever learned, and a lot of fun to fly (400 hours). I've flown the B737-300, -700, and -800. Was perfectly happy to spend my career on it.

I flew many, many 10-leg days on the J32, with scheduled reduced-rest overnights. Both the J32 and J41 were easy to plan even with crappy weather. Pull the power back, and they come down. Flying with FO's who've never flown a larger jet, I've found that they don't know how to plan a descent. I've sat in the JS of EMBs and CRJs (thanks for the rides :)) and they're a piece of cake. They climb really slow, and I've been vectored around them many times during a climb out because of it.

For example: 3-1 rule for descents. Few know how to do it in their heads. You also have to plan for decelerations. The L10 took 9-10 miles, depending on weight, to slow from 300 to 250 KIAS, the B757 about 7 miles, and the B737 4-5. The RJs I've seen rarely are above 270 KIAS, if ever above 250. It usually takes a similar distance to get from 250 to 210. The L10 you can't use flaps and speed-brakes at the same time.

I sat in the JS of a TWA DC9 JS with the A/P deferred. Needless to say, it was the FOs leg. He did fine.

In large jets, just about every runway length is a factor. 7000' is a long runway for an RJ, not so with larger jet. Throw in the fact that some of these runways are seen maybe once a week, (or once/twice a year) not 10 times a day, and it can get pretty tense.

I used to say that I'd always want to fly with someone that can hand-fly. I do, but now I also want to fly with someone that can manage all the "magic" in the cockpit, and not be "high and fast" all the time.

When it comes down to it, you get interviewed by who you know, then what you know, but you get the job by how well you bullsh!t. You keep the job by how you fly and play with (serve) others. One last thing. There's string around these parts about "Airline types need not apply" that applies to a corporate position. You never see that for airline jobs.

Hope you never see your company shut down. It's worse than being furloughed.
 
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That would be an ugly integration for the jetblue guys. Even with DOH it would be a staple job. Maybe they will get lucky and have Eagle stapled below the jetblue guys.

Then get ready for a fight. "Fair and equitable" is the order of the day, and the law. A merger with a healthy, profitable airline with more than 150 mainline jets won't fly with a staple, or with DOH. It might take years and a lot of APA's dues money but they'll still lose. Nobody wants that.
 
Then get ready for a fight. "Fair and equitable" is the order of the day, and the law. A merger with a healthy, profitable airline with more than 150 mainline jets won't fly with a staple, or with DOH. It might take years and a lot of APA's dues money but they'll still lose. Nobody wants that.

I think you are mistaken. When you merge a nonunion with a union carrier the law won't save you.
 
I think you are mistaken. When you merge a nonunion with a union carrier the law won't save you.


No, you have it wrong. When 49% or less of a carrier--either union represented or not--is acquired/merged, whatever--then the Bond/McCaskill legislation does not apply.

In all other instances a right of arbitration is the minimum...whether union represented or not.

stlflyguy
 

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