Bringupthebird
Grumpy? Who-Me?
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2006
- Posts
- 2,182
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
- Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
- Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
- Share the passion for aviation
- Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun
AA makes offer to the APA----and it's.....well....uhhh
- Thread starter General Lee
- Start date
- Watchers 21
Welcome to Flightinfo.com
- Register now and join the discussion
- Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
- Invite your friends
- Share the passion of aviation
- Friendliest aviation community on the web
P
pave driver
There is no reason for your actions and deceit Parker. It only epitomizes your true character. Hope your minions are reading these boards. Have another little taste in the following:
Thanks to the over 500 pilots who dialed in on short notice to yesterday’s LAX town hall telephone meeting. We have been following up with those pilots who were unable to get their questions answered in the allotted time or who asked for additional discussion. Good questions, focus and participation by West Coast pilots. The BOD is in session today as we send APA’s counter proposal across the street in a few hours. It will be posted to the APA website shortly thereafter for your individual review.
The yet untold story of the depth and length of involvement of APA operators during the removal of AMR management, the construction of the merger, and their behind the scenes communication with the financial community on behalf of AA's new management team that made this possible looms large in this JCBA process. This is no exaggeration - no other AA employee group could have delivered the leadership or results that APA’s relentless efforts did in making a positive change for our pilots and our airline. Doug Parker and his Airways team had absolutely no chance of being where they are today without APA's substantial help - above and below the radar.
In exchange APA expects to conclude this JCBA bargaining with a contract that reflects AA's leadership position in the industry and the key role APA played in the rescue of AA – without which this airline could well have cratered. On the other hand, if AAG executives plan to stiff-arm APA's membership in these talks, everything we’ve built together is thrown into jeopardy. While this is both avoidable and unnecessary this is also not USAir, and APA is not USAPA. Should AA's new management team proceed with the assumption that they can manage a disenfranchised pilot group the way they did at USAIR, it would be a serious misclculation on many levels. With the perfomance of American, there is no legitimate or prudent reason to go there.
“Asked whether it is reasonable to compare him to the industry's five giants. Parker responded: "I don't care about comparisons. I really don't. What we're doing, what I learned about a long time ago, is that it's (most important) to think of all these employees who do their jobs so well, but are so beholden to their leadership." Still, Parker said he has found a role model in Kelleher, who "really cares about the people who work for him. "Herb understands people so well -- that's in the airline," Parker said, noting that if Kelleher were talking with an employee and "if the president of the United States walked into the room, Herb wouldn't divert his attention," but rather would remain engaged in the conversation. Kelleher "is in a class by himself," Parker said. "I could never get there."
The Street 5/13/13
Delta’s CEO Richard Anderson has already figured out the Kelleher magic, Doug Parker has this watershed opportunity to prove he has as well.
Fraternally,
Steve And Bill
By Ted Reed | 11/14/14 - 06:45 AM EST NEW YORK (TheStreet)
The rejection of a flight attendant contract and a contentious start to pilot contract talks have been disheartening for the management and workers at American Airlines (AAL). In Atlanta, home of Delta (DAL), the reaction, no doubt, is somewhat different. Not only is a competitor having problems, but Delta's pilot contract and flight attendant compensation are being held up as models.
Must Read: American Airlines' Surprise Labor Issues Again Complicate a Merger
In a message to members on Wednesday, Keith Wilson, president of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents American pilots, praised Delta for its commitment to reward employees with profit-sharing, something American isn't offering....
…as recently as Oct. 26, Delta CEO Richard Anderson jabbed American and United (UAL), saying they do not offer profit-sharing and they therefore pay less than Delta does. "What we're always proud about and what sets Delta off as a totally different company than United and American is our profit-sharing," Anderson said in his weekly telephone message to employees. "For Delta people who have already received an early payment on their 2014 profit-sharing and, come February, will get the remainder of what is expected to be a total of more than $1 billion in profit-sharing paid to our employees, that means 15% on top of what your W2 would otherwise be," Anderson said. "So essentially, it's a 15% pay increase. No other airline is even coming close to that number. "Some airlines don't have any of this and are proud of the fact that they don't have it," he said, adding, "Delta folks are by far the best paid in the industry."
On Wednesday, in an emailed message to members, APA's Wilson quoted (Delta’s) Anderson as saying that: "rewarding employees with pay for performance through profit-sharing ... drives revenue growth and better financial returns," and Wilson added, "American Airlines management evidently believes otherwise...management does not appear to be interested in providing our pilots with a compensation package comparable to industry leader Delta Air Lines. While initially proposed pay rates are fractionally higher than Delta's current pilot pay rates, there's little adjustment for the absence of profit-sharing, which this year will equal 15% of annual earnings for Delta pilots. This means that American Airlines pilots' compensation would continue to trail industry leader Delta by a significant margin."
He added that Delta pilots will soon negotiate a new contract that will likely surpass American's proposed pay rates.
American CEO Doug Parker has opposed profit-sharing, saying he would prefer to offer higher wages because profits cannot be assured.
Thanks to the over 500 pilots who dialed in on short notice to yesterday’s LAX town hall telephone meeting. We have been following up with those pilots who were unable to get their questions answered in the allotted time or who asked for additional discussion. Good questions, focus and participation by West Coast pilots. The BOD is in session today as we send APA’s counter proposal across the street in a few hours. It will be posted to the APA website shortly thereafter for your individual review.
The yet untold story of the depth and length of involvement of APA operators during the removal of AMR management, the construction of the merger, and their behind the scenes communication with the financial community on behalf of AA's new management team that made this possible looms large in this JCBA process. This is no exaggeration - no other AA employee group could have delivered the leadership or results that APA’s relentless efforts did in making a positive change for our pilots and our airline. Doug Parker and his Airways team had absolutely no chance of being where they are today without APA's substantial help - above and below the radar.
In exchange APA expects to conclude this JCBA bargaining with a contract that reflects AA's leadership position in the industry and the key role APA played in the rescue of AA – without which this airline could well have cratered. On the other hand, if AAG executives plan to stiff-arm APA's membership in these talks, everything we’ve built together is thrown into jeopardy. While this is both avoidable and unnecessary this is also not USAir, and APA is not USAPA. Should AA's new management team proceed with the assumption that they can manage a disenfranchised pilot group the way they did at USAIR, it would be a serious misclculation on many levels. With the perfomance of American, there is no legitimate or prudent reason to go there.
“Asked whether it is reasonable to compare him to the industry's five giants. Parker responded: "I don't care about comparisons. I really don't. What we're doing, what I learned about a long time ago, is that it's (most important) to think of all these employees who do their jobs so well, but are so beholden to their leadership." Still, Parker said he has found a role model in Kelleher, who "really cares about the people who work for him. "Herb understands people so well -- that's in the airline," Parker said, noting that if Kelleher were talking with an employee and "if the president of the United States walked into the room, Herb wouldn't divert his attention," but rather would remain engaged in the conversation. Kelleher "is in a class by himself," Parker said. "I could never get there."
The Street 5/13/13
Delta’s CEO Richard Anderson has already figured out the Kelleher magic, Doug Parker has this watershed opportunity to prove he has as well.
Fraternally,
Steve And Bill
By Ted Reed | 11/14/14 - 06:45 AM EST NEW YORK (TheStreet)
The rejection of a flight attendant contract and a contentious start to pilot contract talks have been disheartening for the management and workers at American Airlines (AAL). In Atlanta, home of Delta (DAL), the reaction, no doubt, is somewhat different. Not only is a competitor having problems, but Delta's pilot contract and flight attendant compensation are being held up as models.
Must Read: American Airlines' Surprise Labor Issues Again Complicate a Merger
In a message to members on Wednesday, Keith Wilson, president of the Allied Pilots Association, which represents American pilots, praised Delta for its commitment to reward employees with profit-sharing, something American isn't offering....
…as recently as Oct. 26, Delta CEO Richard Anderson jabbed American and United (UAL), saying they do not offer profit-sharing and they therefore pay less than Delta does. "What we're always proud about and what sets Delta off as a totally different company than United and American is our profit-sharing," Anderson said in his weekly telephone message to employees. "For Delta people who have already received an early payment on their 2014 profit-sharing and, come February, will get the remainder of what is expected to be a total of more than $1 billion in profit-sharing paid to our employees, that means 15% on top of what your W2 would otherwise be," Anderson said. "So essentially, it's a 15% pay increase. No other airline is even coming close to that number. "Some airlines don't have any of this and are proud of the fact that they don't have it," he said, adding, "Delta folks are by far the best paid in the industry."
On Wednesday, in an emailed message to members, APA's Wilson quoted (Delta’s) Anderson as saying that: "rewarding employees with pay for performance through profit-sharing ... drives revenue growth and better financial returns," and Wilson added, "American Airlines management evidently believes otherwise...management does not appear to be interested in providing our pilots with a compensation package comparable to industry leader Delta Air Lines. While initially proposed pay rates are fractionally higher than Delta's current pilot pay rates, there's little adjustment for the absence of profit-sharing, which this year will equal 15% of annual earnings for Delta pilots. This means that American Airlines pilots' compensation would continue to trail industry leader Delta by a significant margin."
He added that Delta pilots will soon negotiate a new contract that will likely surpass American's proposed pay rates.
American CEO Doug Parker has opposed profit-sharing, saying he would prefer to offer higher wages because profits cannot be assured.
P
pave driver
JCBA Update: Negotiations Continuing
As reported earlier in a hotline message, the APA Negotiating Committee presented management with a comprehensive counter-proposal today designed to address the deficiencies in management's initial JCBA proposals.
Management's negotiators responded by indicating they would like to review our proposal during the next couple of days and prepare a response. Accordingly, our negotiating teams will meet again early next week. The APA board of directors recessed its meeting mid-afternoon and will reconvene Tuesday afternoon.
Key elements of our comprehensive counter-proposal include the following:
Scope modifications (review details here with proposed changes shown in "track changes" form)
In lieu of profit-sharing, a pay component of 10 percent above the following pay rates:
Group I ? A 16.29 percent increase over the Jan. 1, 2015, MTA rate, but not less than the applicable first-year pay rate
Group II ? An increase to match DL 737-800 2015 pay rate
Group III ? An increase to match DL 767-300 2015 pay rate
Group IV ? An increase to match DL 777 2015 pay rate
Group V ? A 16.29 percent increase over the Jan. 1, 2015, MTA rate
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2016
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2017
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2018
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2019
Mid-contract compensation adjustment: On the earlier of:
The effective date of a new Delta Air Lines Pilot Agreement, or
The effective date of a new United Airlines Pilot Agreement
But not earlier than Jan. 1, 2017, pay rates in Section 3 will be adjusted to the higher of the rates in the AA JCBA, the DL CBA or the UA CBA
Make A321 pay equivalent to Group III pay
Average day value of 5:20 applied to "calendar day"
Length-of-service credit for pilots with furlough time
Improvements to Long Term Disability (LTD) benefit to include increase to monthly cap and duration
Fellow pilots, we are committed to securing a negotiated agreement commensurate with your sacrifices, your role in bringing the merger to fruition and your critical role in our revitalized airline's day-to-day success. As the pilots who fly for the world's largest airline ? a company producing the highest profits in its entire history ? nothing less will do.
As reported earlier in a hotline message, the APA Negotiating Committee presented management with a comprehensive counter-proposal today designed to address the deficiencies in management's initial JCBA proposals.
Management's negotiators responded by indicating they would like to review our proposal during the next couple of days and prepare a response. Accordingly, our negotiating teams will meet again early next week. The APA board of directors recessed its meeting mid-afternoon and will reconvene Tuesday afternoon.
Key elements of our comprehensive counter-proposal include the following:
Scope modifications (review details here with proposed changes shown in "track changes" form)
In lieu of profit-sharing, a pay component of 10 percent above the following pay rates:
Group I ? A 16.29 percent increase over the Jan. 1, 2015, MTA rate, but not less than the applicable first-year pay rate
Group II ? An increase to match DL 737-800 2015 pay rate
Group III ? An increase to match DL 767-300 2015 pay rate
Group IV ? An increase to match DL 777 2015 pay rate
Group V ? A 16.29 percent increase over the Jan. 1, 2015, MTA rate
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2016
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2017
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2018
3.5 percent increase on Jan. 1, 2019
Mid-contract compensation adjustment: On the earlier of:
The effective date of a new Delta Air Lines Pilot Agreement, or
The effective date of a new United Airlines Pilot Agreement
But not earlier than Jan. 1, 2017, pay rates in Section 3 will be adjusted to the higher of the rates in the AA JCBA, the DL CBA or the UA CBA
Make A321 pay equivalent to Group III pay
Average day value of 5:20 applied to "calendar day"
Length-of-service credit for pilots with furlough time
Improvements to Long Term Disability (LTD) benefit to include increase to monthly cap and duration
Fellow pilots, we are committed to securing a negotiated agreement commensurate with your sacrifices, your role in bringing the merger to fruition and your critical role in our revitalized airline's day-to-day success. As the pilots who fly for the world's largest airline ? a company producing the highest profits in its entire history ? nothing less will do.
Last edited:
OState597
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 16, 2004
- Posts
- 83
I think you might be a bigger moron than that arrogant pr!ck GL
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Hey look, it's Dumb (St NIC) and Dumber(OState597). You guys couldn't get laid in a morgue. (Thanks Weird Science)
Look, quit bragging UNTIL you get the better contract, and then 3 months later you are surpassed again by DL. Also, if you don't get profit sharing, it won't exceed DL's pay. Next year the profits are expected to be even higher due to lower oil. Please get BOTH profit sharing and a significant raise, then everyone else will be helped. Until then, you are way behind. Good luck and get it fixed.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Look, quit bragging UNTIL you get the better contract, and then 3 months later you are surpassed again by DL. Also, if you don't get profit sharing, it won't exceed DL's pay. Next year the profits are expected to be even higher due to lower oil. Please get BOTH profit sharing and a significant raise, then everyone else will be helped. Until then, you are way behind. Good luck and get it fixed.
Bye Bye---General Lee
P
pave driver
IF AAG accepts the above APA proposal (likely more BS will come from AAG, err..the ass Glass), anytime during the contract we would adjust to the highest of AA,UA,DL pay rates. The stupid point here is that the 10% above would once again be gone due to DL pilot's profit sharing. So, if DL exceeds our rates in 2016, our rates just match them and don't match them +10% and therefore we'd once again be behind. Does that make sense, or am I not reading it correctly?
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
I think you are. Why not ask for 20% or more? If profit sharing equals about 20% this year (it was going to be double last years (8.125%, so a bit more than 16%, but lower oil this quarter could push it to 20%), and 25% next year. Throw in a new contract on top of that, and your union asking for 10% in exchange for profit sharing doesn't really make sense.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Turtle21
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2007
- Posts
- 1,683
Your standard of measure might be misplaced. DUI has a signed contract, the MOU, and if I remember correctly that lasts until 2019. DUI doesn't have any obligation to look at Delta, UAL, or anyone else. He has a contract. We are not in section 6 negotiations.
If DUI were to adjust the MOU upward because its the "right thing to do" then that would be nice. Do we expect DUI to do it because its "the right thing to do"?
With $4B profits and a DUI stated goal of being a world class airline, I agree the "right thing to do" is to correct salaries of all employees. But I am not optimistic about being a world class airline, unless one considers Walmart a world class retailer.
Jim
Fly Navy!
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 720
And you think anyone on this board thinks you have any shred of integrity?
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Scoot 11
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2011
- Posts
- 567
That might be true, but most of them call you their "b1tch!"
Share this page
Latest resources
-
-
-
-
-
AC 90-89C - Amateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing HandbookAmateur-Built Aircraft and Ultralight Flight Testing Handbook
- Neal
- Updated:
