AA liquidation

[spacecadet1]

Looking very likely. Heard that employees may be walking off soon.

 

[St. Nic]

Looking very likely. Heard that employees may be walking off soon.

Hardly, whats going to happen is a full blown merge with LCC. APA wants to have a fence with DOH integration. More than a rumor

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Must every thread be about SLI? How's about: Hardly, what's going to happen is a full blown merge with LCC. Hopefully it'll work out for everyone.

See? Was that so hard?

 

[fam62c]

Nothing is going to happen as long as the AMR management team has the exclusive right to put forth a reorganization plan. AMR has enough cash to operate in bankruptcy for a long time and the judge will likely extend their exclusivity period. This could go on for a long time, there may be other interested parties who have not even come forward yet. Getting the unions on board was a good move but Parker will have to do a lot more than that. LCC needs to bring money to the table because they don't bring much else and litigation form the last merger is still out there as well. Nobody has seen a detailed (and funded) merger/aquisition plan yet. I think the creditors other than the unions will need to see the money.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I agree Fam62c, but I don't think Parker will have trouble securing financing. He's run a profitable airline in spite of the labor issues here.

Along those lines, I think Parker's plan was brilliant. He effectively turned all the unionized workers against management without exposing LCC's merger plan for Horton to counter. And while it's true AA has exclusivity, management could be pressed to seek a merger before the September deadline.

As for their cash, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they're behind on payments to the pension plan and that when you factor that in, they're pretty much broke.

They'll be studying this one next year at Wharton.

 

[Andy]

Nothing is going to happen as long as the AMR management team has the exclusive right to put forth a reorganization plan. AMR has enough cash to operate in bankruptcy for a long time and the judge will likely extend their exclusivity period. This could go on for a long time, there may be other interested parties who have not even come forward yet. Getting the unions on board was a good move but Parker will have to do a lot more than that. LCC needs to bring money to the table because they don't bring much else and litigation form the last merger is still out there as well. Nobody has seen a detailed (and funded) merger/aquisition plan yet. I think the creditors other than the unions will need to see the money.

Sir, I am offended. How dare you insert sanity in a FI thread!


To the OP: NFW. I had to put up with a bunch of UAL liquidation threads in our darkest days from foreskin cranium posters.
I would have thought that pilots would wise up by now that liquidation's an unlikely outcome for a major carrier with a bunch of cash entering chap 11. Seriously, you have to be totally clueless to post that AMR's going to be liquidated.
To my AMR brothers and sisters, all the best. This too shall pass.

 

[Dan Roman]

Sir, I am offended. How dare you insert sanity in a FI thread!


To the OP: NFW. I had to put up with a bunch of UAL liquidation threads in our darkest days from foreskin cranium posters.
I would have thought that pilots would wise up by now that liquidation's an unlikely outcome for a major carrier with a bunch of cash entering chap 11. Seriously, you have to be totally clueless to post that AMR's going to be liquidated.
To my AMR brothers and sisters, all the best. This too shall pass.

Sound advice. I went through a C11 at my airline and I can can say for sure that you will hear numerous scenarios, rumors, predictions etc etc. The only thing you can say for sure is they will all prove to be false. The only thing for certain is AA will still be flying in some way shape or form. Maybe with USAir, maybe not.

Good luck guys, given the average age of the AA pilots, it's most likely going to be one of the quickest upgrades to Captain when the dust settles.

 

[dollacrackho]

when they liquidate AA they should mix in some blueberries and pomegranate and make a really sweet smoothie .

 

[ironspud]

Looking very likely. Heard that employees may be walking off soon.

....only in a perfect world.

 

[spacecadet1]

Expect mass resignations in the next couple of weeks.

 

[B-atch]

Heard from an AA buddy that the APA has activated their SPC for the possibility of a wild-cat strike if their contract is abrogated. If this in fact takes place, it would be a great opportunity for ALL pilots, regardless of uniform, to back this strike. We have been taking it in the shorts long enough. Time to turn the table.

 

[General Lee]

Sound advice. I went through a C11 at my airline and I can can say for sure that you will hear numerous scenarios, rumors, predictions etc etc. The only thing you can say for sure is they will all prove to be false. The only thing for certain is AA will still be flying in some way shape or form. Maybe with USAir, maybe not.

Good luck guys, given the average age of the AA pilots, it's most likely going to be one of the quickest upgrades to Captain when the dust settles.

Mix in the average ages of the USAir East guys, and people will move up quickly there eventually. I see the AWA guys really doing well if that merger occurs. I can't really see AA liquidating, but a merger probably will be the outcome.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[spacecadet1]

Heard from an AA buddy that the APA has activated their SPC for the possibility of a wild-cat strike if their contract is abrogated. If this in fact takes place, it would be a great opportunity for ALL pilots, regardless of uniform, to back this strike. We have been taking it in the shorts long enough. Time to turn the table.

Yup, it's coming to a theater near you. Will the creditors do better with a liquidation?

 

[outerlimits]

Heard from an AA buddy that the APA has activated their SPC for the possibility of a wild-cat strike if their contract is abrogated. If this in fact takes place, it would be a great opportunity for ALL pilots, regardless of uniform, to back this strike. We have been taking it in the shorts long enough. Time to turn the table.

Is a wild cat strike legal ?

 

[J.Otto]

Is a wild cat strike legal ?

of course not.

Id love to see one though!

 

[AA717driver]

Some truth to the OP. The natives are more than restless.

Management put out several letters pooh-poohing the Airways offer. They took the most hated individual in AA history (HR VP) and "removed" him--but not really. He's still hanging around to collect his bonus for doing his Masters' bidding and F'ing the employees for a decade.

We've got a decent deal from USAir in hand and AA is trying to tell us an 1113 contract and AA run by the same inbred group that allowed AA to die on the vine will be better for us?

REEEELLLYYY? Don't pi$$ me off by grossly insulting our intelligence.

You don't have to be a super-sleuth to see that the management wants their loot from exiting bankruptcy (think Tilton numbers) AND then, they want to collect again when AA inevitibly merges with USAir anyway.

So, yeah, it's entirely possible when (not if) the judge rubber stamps the 1113 request.

TC

 

[BentOver]

Coming from a non-legacy, never been there guy.... IF AA gets the contract thrown out and gets to impose crappy(ier) wages and work rules, plus lay off a bunch of pilots and even more employees......

What is the real danger of walking off the job in the form of a wild-cat strike??? I mean, no doubt they'll try to impose the worst or near worst wages in the industry in BKRPTCY.

Would the job even be worth it, especially for SIC's if you were making say $70K or worse?? Not that $70K is a bad wage for the average person. But we know it's not a good wage for an airline pilot.

At what point does it make sense/sound reasonable to let it burn?
Good luck to every one involved

 

[Citjok]

In bankrupcy proceedings is the job of the judge to protect the ones that have their cash on the line (creditors). He or she will weight heavily what the creditors want (merge). Horton is only worried about his own job.

 

[Angus Khan]

Coming from a non-legacy, never been there guy.... IF AA gets the contract thrown out and gets to impose crappy(ier) wages and work rules, plus lay off a bunch of pilots and even more employees......

What is the real danger of walking off the job in the form of a wild-cat strike??? I mean, no doubt they'll try to impose the worst or near worst wages in the industry in BKRPTCY.

Would the job even be worth it, especially for SIC's if you were making say $70K or worse?? Not that $70K is a bad wage for the average person. But we know it's not a good wage for an airline pilot.

At what point does it make sense/sound reasonable to let it burn?
Good luck to every one involved

Good point. I have been at the bottom for so long, furloughed 9 years, recalled to a double commute and reserve. I can make it without AA and am willing to fight hard to make this place worth it. I do not fear AA failing. I wouldn't mind a more quiet and simple lifestyle.

 

[BentOver]

Good point. I have been at the bottom for so long, furloughed 9 years, recalled to a double commute and reserve. I can make it without AA and am willing to fight hard to make this place worth it. I do not fear AA failing. I wouldn't mind a more quiet and simple lifestyle.

In my thinking..

The lower the wages and work rules, the more easily it will be to replace.. (although in this economy it's always a crapshoot)

Factor in those who are destined to be furloughed again, and those who are close enough to retirement age, a majority of AA pilots "may" have nothing to really lose by really fighting this scam of a deal.

I doubt there will be enough participants to truly destroy managaments game plan, but maybe enough to cause a rather large disruption. AA management can either sacrifice some money to the employees, or sacrifice a lot of money to cancelled flights, pissed off passengers and a really bad public relations nighmare

 

[Angus Khan]

In my thinking..

The lower the wages and work rules, the more easily it will be to replace.. (although in this economy it's always a crapshoot)

Factor in those who are destined to be furloughed again, and those who are close enough to retirement age, a majority of AA pilots "may" have nothing to really lose by really fighting this scam of a deal.

I doubt there will be enough participants to truly destroy managaments game plan, but maybe enough to cause a rather large disruption. AA management can either sacrifice some money to the employees, or sacrifice a lot of money to cancelled flights, pissed off passengers and a really bad public relations nighmare

Amen, and if the guys at the top of the union pyramid scheme don't fight for those guys at the bottom of the pyramid.....well, they deserve whatever crap comes their way.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Is a wild cat strike legal ?

My Dad was involved in a wild cat strike back in 1959 with American Airlines. I was in the baby buggy rolling the strike line with him at Midway airport back then. That's when ALPA wanted to throw the Professional Flight Engineers out of the Cockpit in favor of a PILOT in the Engineer seat. He got the same Western Union letter for 14 days in a row stating he would never work for American again if he didn't come back. Dad ended up going back when the strike was finished and they signed a tri-part agreement and he finished up with 47 years with American. Legal, maybe not but it worked!

 

[Dizel8]

Wildcat strike, sure it's not legal. OTOH, if the contracts gets gutted, then people should be allowed to walk out, fair is fair.

If the President can stop a strike, even a legal one through a PEB, then he should also be allowed to intervene on behalf of the employees.

Yeah, I know!

 

[ALGFLYR]

.... I was in the baby buggy rolling the strike line with him at Midway airport back then.

Did you get a battle pin??

 

[BeachBummer]

My Dad was involved in a wild cat strike back in 1959 with American Airlines. I was in the baby buggy rolling the strike line with him at Midway airport back then. That's when ALPA wanted to throw the Professional Flight Engineers out of the Cockpit in favor of a PILOT in the Engineer seat. He got the same Western Union letter for 14 days in a row stating he would never work for American again if he didn't come back. Dad ended up going back when the strike was finished and they signed a tri-part agreement and he finished up with 47 years with American. Legal, maybe not but it worked!

I like your story, but your Dad got hired at 13yrs old at AA? just doin the napkin math on 60-47=...

help me out here. He retired at 60 then spend say, 10yrs in the school house? managment? Just tryin to clarify.

Dude, I'm sorry, disreguard. Never, ever ruin a good story with the truth!!

 

[ragman]

Age 60 did not apply to FE's

 

[Andy]

Age 60 did not apply to FE's

BeachBummer's too young to remember FEs. :cartman:

 

[outerlimits]

I like your story, but your Dad got hired at 13yrs old at AA? just doin the napkin math on 60-47=...

help me out here. He retired at 60 then spend say, 10yrs in the school house? managment? Just tryin to clarify.

Dude, I'm sorry, disreguard. Never, ever ruin a good story with the truth!!

I doubt he is lying .

I am sure after age 60 , JS dad went back to flying as a FE. Hence the long tenure . FedEx has some that look like they are 100 and still sitting as FE

 

[rigger]

Don't count all your chickens folks. There is a long line of furloughed/underemployed 121,fractional (former121) 135, former (121) etc guys on the street due to the 08 economy and most of all the AGE 65 greed!

They would love to get back into the seat they were forced out of and keep the AA moniker flying.......don't sit in your own ivory tower (like management) and discount the civil discourse towards the unions and thier agendas......70k would make most guys mortgage payments just fine.......the geezers need to remember this before they SHOW THEM!!!

! Has really never worked out well for anyone but the owners and the senior managers, who always show up again and do the same thing to the same guys (who for whatever reason never remember history)

 

[A350]

IMO....AMR management cannot get the judge to abrogate the contracts. The unions have the deal that LCC will give them and if they can merge and make a go of it with that deal, AMR management will have a tough time making the judge believe the only option is to abrogate their contracts.

Not to mention the large cash balance they have.... the judge would have to believe that the survival of the company is in jeopardy if he doesn't act.

A350