AA Coming to Love

[OffHot]

American already has three gates at Love, costing them 300k per year. They might be looking at the old Legacy gates, isn't that ironic, which would be great for them and great for SWA. Keeps them on the east side and out of our way. The best thing that could happen is AA/Eagle start using 50 seat aircraft and bypass the WA, then those in Washington would see that this isn't a local issue and the WA make no sense. Of course Joe Barton would say SWA deserves this and that if they would just move to DFW all would be good. Of course Kit Bond will get his wish, a price war between AA and SWA to STL and MCI. Funny though we will set the price, make a profit, AA will match and lose money. Wasn't it just a month ago that AA said they needed to focus on overseas routes because they make the greatest revenue.. That was short lived.

 

[TexaSWA]

Do you really believe the WA will be repealed with a 26 gate lockup on a total of 32? There will have to be compromises pally, and 26 gates won't cut it.

I for one am glad to hear you say that.

 

[aa73]

Funny though we will set the price, make a profit, AA will match and lose money. Wasn't it just a month ago that AA said they needed to focus on overseas routes because they make the greatest revenue.. That was short lived.

Not quite short lived. We are still focusing our biggest expansions on overseas routes. The Love flying wouldn't actually be "new" service because they're gonna have to take some aircraft and routes out of DFW to start the DAL service.

I'm still amazed how most of you really turn this into a personal battle when really it is just business decisions being made by our two managements. I for one hope that our companies don't suffer the consequences of poor decisions. I'm sure the WA will fall, always have believed that, and even so I still greatly admire SWA and its pilots. All we can do is go along for the ride.

 

[Tejas-Jet]

Do you really believe the WA will be repealed with a 26 gate lockup on a total of 32? There will have to be compromises pally, and 26 gates won't cut it.

Sure....look at Houston Hobby....SWA has all but 5 of the gates there...and guess what?...No complaints from the other tenants...including AA.

Tejas

 

[canyonblue]

It's amazing how when Southwest builds up an airport that no one wants to fly out of, MDW DAL HOU etc, everyone else shows up later and complains about us having too many gates.

 

[sf260pilot]

"They might be looking at the old Legacy gates, isn't that ironic, which would be great for them and great for SWA." -OFFHOT

That way AA will split it's hub and then split it's Love Feild Ops. I can just hear those NICE AA ticket counter agents now: "No maam you are on the wrong side of the airport, No maam we will not wait for you."

 

[80drvr]

It's amazing how when Southwest builds up an airport that no one wants to fly out of, MDW DAL HOU etc, everyone else shows up later and complains about us having too many gates.

You might want to brush up on the history of DAL.

 

[cipolini]

The last time they were here they used F100s with 50 seats and flew to LAX and LGA to compete with Legend. That was after they matched the SWA's AUS schedule flight for flight with a 27% load factor on their MD80s. I think the load factors on their LAX and NYC wasn't very good either, I had a AA pilot friend who flew those DAL flights and he mentioned that it would be easy to nonrev on those flights... So after 9/11 they hightailed it back to the mothership at DFW.

 

[canyonblue]

You might want to brush up on the history of DAL.

The history after 1971. I know it already. Anything prior to that would not involve SWA and not involve SWA and a Tombstone airport.

 

[Hoke]

I wish AA all the best in coming to Love Field however, isn't this the biggest injustice you could do to your employees and shareholders by going back to DAL knowing full well it's going to be a money losing operation fueled by ego.

 

[fox51ramprat]

Kevin Cox is going to have a hissy fit! American is thinking of splitting it's hub and reducing flights at DFW. I thought they had a deal. A Deals a Deal!

 

[OffHot]

Maybe Cox ought to resign! His boss makes near 350k, just got to wonder what Mr "I hate SWA" Cox, makes. Not bad for public employees.

 

[aa73]

I wish AA all the best in coming to Love Field however, isn't this the biggest injustice you could do to your employees and shareholders by going back to DAL knowing full well it's going to be a money losing operation fueled by ego.

I agree that it's a risky proposition, but I'm not so sure it would be a money loser. Used to be, whenever AA matched SWA's fares, we bled red ink. Not so true anymore... our costs are much lower than the last time we went into DAL. Maybe we'll break even...:blush:

 

[OffHot]

AA73 your costs are no where near ours. I know we see this seat cost mile vs that seat cost mile and how close they are, but read the fine print. AA has borrowed against their aircraft and that is debt. This debt has to be paid. When the payments are due, I have no clue, but unlike your pension fund it must be paid within the next twenty years. Not that AA hasn't lower costs, but they couldn't make money at Love when the airline industry was making record profits. AA73, we have two great airlines in DFW and I have many friends who fly for AA, I do wish them well, but fighting us over STL and MCI just to take a shot across our bow might back fire with the Dallas passengers, of cousre they just want $39 tickets and don't care which airline they fly. Time will tell.

 

[aa73]

AA73 your costs are no where near ours. I know we see this seat cost mile vs that seat cost mile and how close they are, but read the fine print. AA has borrowed against their aircraft and that is debt. This debt has to be paid. When the payments are due, I have no clue, but unlike your pension fund it must be paid within the next twenty years. Not that AA hasn't lower costs, but they couldn't make money at Love when the airline industry was making record profits. AA73, we have two great airlines in DFW and I have many friends who fly for AA, I do wish them well, but fighting us over STL and MCI just to take a shot across our bow might back fire with the Dallas passengers, of cousre they just want $39 tickets and don't care which airline they fly. Time will tell.

Hey I didn't say our costs were down around SWAs... I just said that they're a lot lower than last time we were at DAL. Whether we will make money over there is doubtful.. I am hopeful we can just break even.

I don't look at it as "taking a shot across SWA's bow," I just think AMR is trying to compete now that they think the WA is gonna fall. Competing means crossing over to DAL to try and keep its premium customers instead of abandoning them. It's just business.. Like you said, time will tell. It's gonna be interesting. Cheers from across town.

 

[FurloughedTwice]

Everyone talks about SWA's CASM being so low but AA doesn't need their CASM to be as low as SWA to be profitable.

Just hypothetically speaking, of course, if AA had a "successful fuel hedging business", as does SWA, they would have made just as much if not more money than SWA did over the last year. I realize this isn't the case and may never be but my point is it's not the airline that has made SWA profitable over the last couple years. The airline itself lost money. It's the "profitable fuel hedging business" they have that has made them successful. Those contracts aren't as cheap as they use to be and as time goes on the playing field starts to even out.

If AA can fill their first class seats in and out of DAL then I think they will have a shot at least breaking even. It's all about market share. If you can fill the seats and break even in certain markets to remain competitive then it's worth flying in there.

Just my opinion!!. :beer:

 

[poydras]

Aa+ae= Peckerwoods

 

[CSY Mon]

The last time they were here they used F100s with 50 seats and flew to LAX and LGA to compete with Legend.

That was Don Carthy?
Mr. Airline Fiasco.

 

[1BigRodeo]

SWA only loses money without hedgeing depending on who Gary Kelly is talking to that day. On the books, SW has not lost money without hedging, for the simple reason that without the Tax implications related to profit, the balance sheet would show a profit for a lesser income. (any accountant types can better explain).

Any communications with employee groups, or about employee negotiations will inevitably bring about the gloom and doom from our leader. Thats his job.

Any communications with regards to competition, expansion, or our financial health will bring about the profitable side of the equation.

Its that way anywhere you look in business. Its tough all over.

I think that American showing up at LUV field is great for SWA. It shows how rediculous the Wright Amendment is, and promotes the spirit of competition. AMR and SWA are utter opposites financially, culturally, and productively, but, will make Love Field a more viable player in travel for the customers. That is a Win-Win for all involved. Keep em spendin their loot. If AA can do it profitably, then their employees win too.

My Dad always said that the biggest injustice a company could do to its employees is to run an unprofitable business. I still believe that.

 

[canyonblue]

if AA had a "successful fuel hedging business",.........If AA can fill their first class seats

If if and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a wonderful Christmas.