A380 first flight 4/27!

[EuroWheenie]

Whale Rider

No, a "letter of intent" is not an order. An order is an order when money's on the table, not a second before. The current Air India/Airbus debate over the order of 40ish A32X aircraft is a case in point. Hell, "my" airline placed a "letter of intent" for 44 ex. BA 757s to be converted to freighters, but ended up buying "only" 34.

And if anyone's twisting the numbers, it's Airbus and Boeing; I'm only quoting direct from their websites!

 

[bocefus]

A-380, just like the Concorde, will be a symbol of prestige and commercial failure

 

[bocefus]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch Boeing is quietly developing this
http://www.boeing.com/news/releases/2005/q1/nr_050222g.html
Of course, it is only intended to be used for transporting 787 subassemblies. Hmmm, I wonder why they are pursuing certification?

 

[EuroWheenie]

bofecus

Judged on your earlier statement that "there are more 777 than A330/340 flying", and your apparent unwillingness to admit mistake and retract statement, your creditability is somewhat shot to pieces. But I must congratulate you for being able to see into the future; where can one acquire such a skill? And with that skill, why are you sprouting BS on a website rather than picking next weeks lottery numbers?

 

[EuroWheenie]

Latest: Gear and flaps have been retracted and there was a live voice feed from the cockpit a few moments ago where the crew said they were "happy". I suppose that's always the case, at least I cannot remember hearing a testpilot saying on the first flight that the aeroplane was crap

Expected to fly-by TLS at 14:00 local (12:00UTC) and land at around 14:15.

Take-off roll took only 25 seconds, which surprised even Airbus who had expected it to last "a little longer". And did you see those wings flex! She may be butt ugly on the ground, but oh Man once she took to her right element the elegance started to show. As someone else said, those wings are a thing of beauty!

It has already blown the (passenger version) of the 747 clear out of the water, and will set the standards for wide-bodies for a long time to come. Expect orders from BA and CX within the not too distant future, and if JAL can overcome their institutional and unfounded dislike of Airbus, or rather undying love of Boeing, there is a 850 pax version just waiting to be certified for them.

Airbus needs something like 300 orders to break even, and is roughly half-way there. First delivery by end 2006; it will sell and it will make Airbus tons of money.

 

[bocefus]

"All launch aid to Airbus, apart from the initial A300, has been in the form of repayable loans. Unlike the R&D support Boeing has been enjoying for the US governement, which is not repayable. So from a taxpayers point of view, I'd say us Euro's are better off than you Yanks."

And you don't reckon that EADS/AIRBUS enjoys plenty of R&D support from the EU governments? You don't reckon that AIRBUS benefits from and has made use of NASA aerodynamic research? Those loans you mention are only "repayable" if the aircraft line is profitable. Got any numbers on how many of the "loans" have been paid back? Why is that Airbus is so reluctant to take the subsidies issue to the WTO?

 

[bocefus]

"bofecus

Judged on your earlier statement that "there are more 777 than A330/340 flying", and your apparent unwillingness to admit mistake and retract statement, your creditability is somewhat shot to pieces. But I must congratulate you for being able to see into the future; where can one acquire such a skill? And with that skill, why are you sprouting BS on a website rather than picking next weeks lottery numbers?"

Ummm, I said this?

 

[EuroWheenie]

bofecus

Sincere apologies mate, that statement was made by Whale Rider

Still like to learn how to see into the future though

 

[bocefus]

Apologies accepted. Now then, back to my questions of you.

 

[EuroWheenie]

bofecus

EADS does enjoy very little direct R&D support, and what it get is earmarked for A400M and MBDA development.

I don't think that Airbus are any more reluctant than Boeing to go to the WTO, however let's not forget who started this whole debate - namely Boeing to put a stop to the A350 receiving launch aid. Let's not fool ourselves, both manufacturers receive aid - it's just in different forms. Now since the US brought the skeletons out of the closet, by unilaterally withdrawing from the 1992 agreement, it's only natural for Airbus to fight back. You didn't expect them to roll over and play dead did you? It is worth mentioning that the 1992 agreement is still in force; it's just that the US has stated it won't be utilising the option of having the government providing finance (repayable with interests) for up to 33% of development costs. There is nothing stopping Airbus for pursuing the finance for the A350, and chances are they will.

As it is, both sides are seeing things from their point of view, and both are keeping themselves busy mudding the waters. Latest is that the EU wants the WTO talks to include the launch aid promised by Japan for the 787, whereas the US says "we'll look at that later". Sadly, the US have a very poor track record when it comes to promises of "looking at that later". The steel tariff being a case in point, a case the US is set to loose in WTO talks. Airbus has made claims that Boeing has received non-refundable subsidies to the tune of USD 20 Billion, in the form of R&D and tax relief. I haven't heard the return salvo from Boeing on that one, but I'm confident they'll fire off something but most likely in a different direction just to confuse the hell out of everybody. It's politics mate, it's not as if it's really founded in reality! And that goes for both parties, or rather all 4 parties.

Airbus/EADS is showing a healthy profit, and the countries that contributed to the A320 launch are now seeing a return on investment. That is to say that the loans have been paid back, and they are now receiving a royalty on every single aircraft produced. I can't find it at the moment, but there was a paper out saying that the A320 royalties have also paid back the direct launch grants (not loans, straight hand-outs) for the A300/A310 development.

You are incorrect in stating that the loans will only be paid back if the lines are profitable. From the moment the first airframe is delivered, the loans are being paid back. Besides, it's hardly relevant since all current lines in the Airbus factory, apart from the A380 obviously, are showing a profit.

Is Airbus benefitting from NASA studies? Don't know. Would NASA exist today without Werner Von Braun? Don't know about that either.