A380 first flight 4/27!

[bocefus]

"The 737NG series has a smaller backlog than the A320 series, and the 777 is behind the A330/A340 backlog. In other words, beaten in every single segment. I suppose it's never easy to give up the number 1 spot, especially to a bunch of Euro's!"

Let's keep things in perspective here Wheenie lad. The 737 series is the best selling airliner anywhere and Boeing has delivered more of these than the entire Airbus line combined.

 

[(o) (o)]

Is it just me or is it EVEN UGLIER airborne?

 

[TonyC]

Is it just me or is it EVEN UGLIER airborne?

The former.




.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Whale Rider:

Hardly surprising that Boeing's got more metal flying than Airbus is it? They had everything currently on offer in the production line apart from the 75/76/77 when Airbus got the A300 off the ground ...

According to this Boeing page http://active.boeing.com/commercial...odel=777&cboAllModel=&ViewReportF=View+Report there are 507 airframes of all 777 types flying.

According to this Airbus page http://www.airbus.com/media/orders_n_deliveries.asp there are 635 airframes of all A330/340 types flying.

Would you care to retract your statement re. more 777 flying than A330/340?

Further, here is the current backlog breakdown:

Boeing
717 : 15
737 : 771
747 : 28 (All but 8 are freighters)
757 : 1 (Built but in storage awaiting delivery)
767 : 20
777 : 174
787 : 64

Total : 1073

Airbus
A300/A310: 55 (All but 3 are A300-600F)
A32x : 1064
A330/A340: 273
A380 : 139

Total : 1531

So I'll stand by my statement: Beaten in every single segment. You will notice that the Airbus A32X backlog alone is roughly the same as the total Boeing backlog ...



bofecus

All launch aid to Airbus, apart from the initial A300, has been in the form of repayable loans. Unlike the R&D support Boeing has been enjoying for the US governement, which is not repayable. So from a taxpayers point of view, I'd say us Euro's are better off than you Yanks.

 

[Whale Rider]

Whale Rider:

Hardly surprising that Boeing's got more metal flying than Airbus is it? They had everything currently on offer in the production line apart from the 75/76/77 when Airbus got the A300 off the ground ...

According to this Boeing page http://active.boeing.com/commercial/orders/displaystandardreport.cfm?optReportType=CurrentModels&cboCurrentModel=777&cboAllModel=&ViewReportF=View+Report there are 507 airframes of all 777 types flying.

According to this Airbus page http://www.airbus.com/media/orders_n_deliveries.asp there are 635 airframes of all A330/340 types flying.

Would you care to retract your statement re. more 777 flying than A330/340?

Further, here is the current backlog breakdown:

Boeing
717 : 15
737 : 771
747 : 28 (All but 8 are freighters)
757 : 1 (Built but in storage awaiting delivery)
767 : 20
777 : 174
787 : 64

Total : 1073

Airbus
A300/A310: 55 (All but 3 are A300-600F)
A32x : 1064
A330/A340: 273
A380 : 139

Total : 1531

So I'll stand by my statement: Beaten in every single segment. You will notice that the Airbus A32X backlog alone is roughly the same as the total Boeing backlog ...



bofecus

All launch aid to Airbus, apart from the initial A300, has been in the form of repayable loans. Unlike the R&D support Boeing has been enjoying for the US governement, which is not repayable. So from a taxpayers point of view, I'd say us Euro's are better off than you Yanks.

Hey Wheenie,

You forgot:

B787 = 217 orders (Not 64)

A350 = 10 orders

 

[EuroWheenie]

bofecus

Correct, there are more 737 produced than the entire Airbus range. Hardly surprising is it, given that the 737 has been in production since 1960 something, whereas the A320 has been in production since 1984ish. A 25 year head start should produce some kind of result!

However, the A320 is the fastest selling commercial aircraft ever build.
The total number of orders/deliveries for the 737NG is 2447/1667 whereas the same figures for the A32X series is 3472/2408. In other words, Airbus has delivered almost as many A32X as Boeing has taken orders for the 737NG. If you insist on comparing apples and oranges, then go ahead. I belive this is a more accurate picture of the current market, not what the market was like in the 50s, 60s and 70s! And yes, I do appreciate that the A32X is a few years older than the 737NG. But it's still a better selling aeroplane today, which just goes to prove that giving a 40 year old design a make over does not make it a brand new one. And in there lies the Boeing problems; too many years resting on the laurels and bad mouthing the Airbus range. Seems like they finally woke up (787) to smell the roses, and about bloody time it was too!

You see, I'm not particularly pro Boeing or Airbus, neither am I anti any of the two. But seeing garbage being spread out as gospel (reminds me of Fox News btw) does get my knickers in a twist. Were someone to distort the picture in favour of Airbus, I'd react similarly.

 

[Whale Rider]

bofecus

Correct, there are more 737 produced than the entire Airbus range. Hardly surprising is it, given that the 737 has been in production since 1960 something, whereas the A320 has been in production since 1984ish. A 25 year head start should produce some kind of result!

However, the A320 is the fastest selling commercial aircraft ever build.
The total number of orders/deliveries for the 737NG is 2447/1667 whereas the same figures for the A32X series is 3472/2408. In other words, Airbus has delivered almost as many A32X as Boeing has taken orders for the 737NG. If you insist on comparing apples and oranges, then go ahead. I belive this is a more accurate picture of the current market, not what the market was like in the 50s, 60s and 70s! And yes, I do appreciate that the A32X is a few years older than the 737NG. But it's still a better selling aeroplane today, which just goes to prove that giving a 40 year old design a make over does not make it a brand new one. And in there lies the Boeing problems; too many years resting on the laurels and bad mouthing the Airbus range. Seems like they finally woke up (787) to smell the roses, and about bloody time it was too!

You see, I'm not particularly pro Boeing or Airbus, neither am I anti any of the two. But seeing garbage being spread out as gospel (reminds me of Fox News btw) does get my knickers in a twist. Were someone to distort the picture in favour of Airbus, I'd react similarly.

Wheenie,

You are pro-Airbus. No one here is stupid enough to believe you're not. The facts are distorted in favor of Airbus. How can you say things like "Beaten in every segment" and then make excuses like Boeing has been building airplanes longer then Airbus? If thats not distorting the facts in favor of Airbus I don't know what is. Also remember that Airbus has gone ahead in a weak American Market. Lets see how well they fair in a strong one...with no (So Called) loans????

 

[EuroWheenie]

Whale Rider

Took the data straight from the horses mouth. Boeing may have "letters of intent" for 217 examples, but they themselves only list the 64 that has been confirmed. Airbus does not list "letters of intent", only confirmed orders, and noone has firmed up any intent to purchase the A350. Incidentially, I don't think the A350 is anything but a vague attempt from Airbus to steal some sunshine from Boeing, much the same as the Cronic Snoozer stole some from the A380. And if the published figures is anything to go by, the 787 seems to have the advantage over the A350. The only concern some airlines seem to have with the 787 is the composite fuselage, and the associated problems of economical repairs of ramp rash (i.e. some dork backing the catering van into and puncturing the fueselage).

However, even with Boeing gaining an extra 143 orders over Airbus hardly changes the overall picture does it?

But I do think that Boeing may just gain the momentum now, if they relatively quickly downsize the 787 technology and produce a single-aisle bleedless, composite, aircraft to compete with the A32X. If they can make it common enough to offer the same typerating as the 787 and 777, then they have a winner and Airbus will have to play catch-up. Then it would be a question of up-scaling the technology, and offer a 777 replacement that'll blow the A330/340 clear out of the water and the present situation will be reversed. And so far and so forth. If I've learned anything in this business it is that it's cyclic. Airbus has been edging into the lead for the last 15 odd years, and will probably stay there until Boeing can get a 737 replacement off the ground.

 

[Whale Rider]

Orders are orders pal..stop twisting the facts as you say.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Whale Rider

Let me clarify then. When I said "beaten in every segment" I was of course referring to the current market. Otherwise Douglas would have been the clear winner with the DC-3, right? I'm not making up the numbers, Boeing and Airbus are. And, based on current numbers, Airbus does have Boeing beaten in every single segment. I do agree that historically Boeing has build many more aircraft than Airbus, but that is worth very little in todays market.

I don't think that neither Boeing or Airbus is placing the US market on top of their agenda. Yes, it's by far the biggest in the world but it's very far from being the biggest growth market, and it's very unlikely it will become that even if all the US legacy carriers would make a profit. For a producer of new aircraft, the natural markets to look for is those that are growing. And that is Asia and the Middle East primarily, Europe and South America secondarily.

But what you're really trying to tell me, I suppose, is that US carriers are extremely nationalisticly minded and would buy American even if a better, but foreign made, product was available? Yup, that sounds like a really intelligent thing to do! You will of course know that both Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, British Airways, Alitalia and Iberia are running fairly large fleets of Boeing aircraft. They also run large, if not bigger, fleets of Airbusses. How many Airbusses do Delta, American and Continental operate? (Yes, I know that United is a fairly big A32X operator, and that US Air's got a fair chunk too)