A Real Union Not Alpo!!

[CopilotDoug]

People are already making HUGE changes in their lifestyle! Read a newpaper!

So Government intervention is the answer? If that is the answer, why is much of the world going through very much the same we are? Wouldn't Europe be insulated from this mess if their system was better?

Once again regressives like yourself that don't like to think outside the box, quickly offer those who look at other countries for ideas, the opportunity to move to such countries as France, Germany, Sweeden and Japan!

I'm not offering anything...I'm only reminding. If you want to stay here, that's fine as well. How am I regressive? I support personal responsibility...is that regressive in today's "Instant Gratification" age?

So what you are saying is those that are to learn from others should just move to 'Japan' so the "know it alls" can have America to themselves...

No, it was not intended to be a "love it or leave it" post.

-HotShot!!!

 

[Speedtape]

Watched a real union today stand up for it's workers. It was the UAW. They stood strong on their beliefs and were willing to let the company go bankrupt before they conceded wages. Maybe if the Mesa MEC stood up for their pilot group, the contract wouldn't be so crappy. ALPO has no balls. If Mesa went into bankruptcy protection, would the contract have been any worse. HELL NO!! Way to dumb down the industry ALPO. Call the UAW, and learn how to grow balls.

A Real Union Not SAPA!

 

[Hamburger]

It's more like blaming the Lender (MECs and LECs) for pressuring the buyers (Pilots) into unwise propositions (Concessions for future returns)

The MECs and LECs are pilots.

If you don't approve of the job they are doing. Become one yourself. It's up to you, not ALPA.

 

[Huck]

"Full pay to the last day."

 

[CFI2766]

Employee cost is NOT the problem for the companies going bankrupt or leading them into finacial woes.
Management would love to tell you so, and some believe. The UAW knows better, that what led them into this situation was not the labor costs, but um....maybe the fact that the CEO's are raking in millions and millions every quarter for themselves.

How many jets does Bob Lutz have? 4-5?

The Legacy costs, costs incurred by the automakers to support their retired workforce, are a large competitive disadvantage that the 'Big 3' have with regards to the competition in the market place.

However, the Legacy costs by themselves are not the sole, or even the largest, reason for the current crisis.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

So Government intervention is the answer? If that is the answer, why is much of the world going through very much the same we are? Wouldn't Europe be insulated from this mess if their system was better?

So you haven't been reading a newspaper.

Instead you try and instigate "Springer style" debate Joe Merchant Style.

I am still waiting for your "bad as5" analysis of PATCO. While you are at it, contrast the UK bailout terms and the US bail out terms.

I'm not offering anything...I'm only reminding. If you want to stay here, that's fine as well. How am I regressive? I support personal responsibility...is that regressive in today's "Instant Gratification" age?

Responsibility? Are you kidding... The Wall Street clowns are robbing us in broad daylight, pulling the plug on our flat screeen TV as we sit and watch and all you got is "Springer Style" debate......

Your version of personal responsibility is telling a person who lost a love one on 9/11.... "Well they shouldn't have been there... We all know terrorist like to hi-jack jets...."

No, it was not intended to be a "love it or leave it" post.

-HotShot!!!

Yet that is what is was, cause all you offer is populist trash talk. Your post suggest you have zero life experience and your social skills were obtained from watched MTVs the Real World, while your Mom served you grilled cheese sandwiches and other finger food snacks. I am thinking pigs in a blanket and mozzarella sticks....

If you don't approve of the job they are doing. Become one yourself. It's up to you, not ALPA.

He is not an ALPA member. He likes to thrive and wallow in other peoples business.....


But I like the guy, don't get me wrong..... he's like that cute mutt dog that keeps humping your leg. A real life Mr. Peepers.....

 

[CFIT]

"You have no understanding of how little power unions and labor have in this country."
Rez O. Lushun, 11 Dec 2008

 

[CopilotDoug]

So you haven't been reading a newspaper.

Guilty as charged, Rez. I don't have a newspaper subscription. Do I get half-points for getting my news from the internet?

I am still waiting for your "bad as5" analysis of PATCO. While you are at it, contrast the UK bailout terms and the US bail out terms.

Rez, I don't think the members of FI find the PATCO Strike as interesting as you. To sit back and watch repetitive and prententious erudition is irritating. If you'd like to discuss it in earnest, please PM me.

Responsibility? Are you kidding... The Wall Street clowns are robbing us in broad daylight, pulling the plug on our flat screeen TV as we sit and watch and all you got is "Springer Style" debate...

Maybe that's your problem Rez...you SITTING and WATCHING on your FLAT SCREEN TV. Take a break from FI...go outside for some fresh air and get involved...like me.

Your version of personal responsibility is telling a person who lost a love one on 9/11.... "Well they shouldn't have been there... We all know terrorist like to hi-jack jets...."

I, for one, am offended at this comment.

Yet that is what is was, cause all you offer is populist trash talk. Your post suggest you have zero life experience and your social skills were obtained from watched MTVs the Real World, while your Mom served you grilled cheese sandwiches and other finger food snacks. I am thinking pigs in a blanket and mozzarella sticks...

Feel better now?

He is not an ALPA member. He likes to thrive and wallow in other peoples business...

Don't forget to mention: a PROUD non-ALPA member.

Thriving and Wallowing in Your Business,

The Bad Assed, Hotshot Analyst of FlightInfo!!!

 

[CopilotDoug]

"You have no understanding of how little power unions and labor have in this country."
Rez O. Lushun, 11 Dec 2008

Posted before Rez's comment above:

Your contracts, pay, benefits, and job security are no more secure under ALPA than any other Union.

CFIT...your post is another example of Rez swinging in the dark.

 

[BoilerUP]

"Full pay to the last day."

“We don’t want to kill the golden goose. We just want to choke it by the neck until it gives us every last egg.”

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Guilty as charged, Rez. I don't have a newspaper subscription. Do I get half-points for getting my news from the internet?

Probably not, as the news sources you find on the internet are not the same caliber as print. In order to have news printed it must be credible to attract advertising, whereas fringe "news" websites do not...

Rez, I don't think the members of FI find the PATCO Strike as interesting as you.

So now you represent what the members of FI think... wow.... is that a self appointed position?

To sit back and watch repetitive and prententious erudition is irritating. If you'd like to discuss it in earnest, please PM me.

What is irritating is your inability to put up or shut up. You claim unions should have balls and guts, making grandiose and unfounded accusations that, because unions don't play hard ball they are failures.

While I counter with unions that have, such as PATCO and the APA. I ask you to offer arguments on their results and how it would effect current day union "tough guy" actions that you advocate.

Trying to get an answer out of you, is like asking Spicoli to elaborate on why the NY delegation abstained from signing the Declaration of Independence. It is just not going to happen.

I am sure you are a college educated young man, but when it comes to the issues discussed you have zero education and no experience. The only way for you to play in the sandbox is to put guys on the defensive with cheap shots, baseless comments, unfounded accusations and lies.

Maybe that's your problem Rez...you SITTING and WATCHING on your FLAT SCREEN TV. Take a break from FI...go outside for some fresh air and get involved...like me.

Once again you fail to grasp the context of the debate..

I, for one, am offended at this comment.

Hardly, you'll say just about anything on this message board to instigate and rouse discussion. To act now that you have decency and morals is laughable.

Feel better now?

Do you?

Don't forget to mention: a PROUD non-ALPA member.

Thriving and Wallowing in Your Business,

The Bad Assed, Hotshot Analyst of FlightInfo!!!

The true colors come thru.... proud no less...

 

[say again]

ALPA sucks!!!

 

[CopilotDoug]

Probably not, as the news sources you find on the internet are not the same caliber as print. In order to have news printed it must be credible to attract advertising, whereas fringe "news" websites do not...

I wouldn't say cnn.com is a fringe news website. Not necessarily the best...but not the worst.

So now you represent what the members of FI think... wow.... is that a self appointed position?

That...and my goal is not to hijack this thread.

What is irritating is your inability to put up or shut up. You claim unions should have balls and guts, making grandiose and unfounded accusations that, because unions don't play hard ball they are failures.

Correction...my beef is with ALPA. Prater is the one who sailed into office on the grandiose, if hollow, platform of "Taking It Back"

Don't point the finger at me because he is a weak and poor leader.

While I counter with unions that have, such as PATCO and the APA. I ask you to offer arguments on their results and how it would effect current day union "tough guy" actions that you advocate.

Trying to get an answer out of you, is like asking Spicoli to elaborate on why the NY delegation abstained from signing the Declaration of Independence. It is just not going to happen.

Rez, PATCO was a failure because A) They only got about 75% of the membership to strike B) There was plenty of forewarning of an impending strike, so Reagan had time to formulate a contingency plan. No element of surprise and the solidarity was not there. The APA blinked first over the financial interests of the Union...not the employee group.

Have any relevant cases where maybe a pilot group pisses on the RLA and walks out without approval from the NMB?

I am sure you are a college educated young man, but when it comes to the issues discussed you have zero education and no experience. The only way for you to play in the sandbox is to put guys on the defensive with cheap shots, baseless comments, unfounded accusations and lies.

Not that I agree with any of the above...but what of the Pilots who do have the first hand experiences? I am not the only guy on here who doesn't like ALPA. What say you to those current members who are disgusted by ALPA? How about MerlinDrvr88? Why don't you address his statements?

Once again you fail to grasp the context of the debate...

I failed to grasp nothing Rez. When are you going to realize that at the end of the day, you're responsible for your own actions?

Hardly, you'll say just about anything on this message board to instigate and rouse discussion. To act now that you have decency and morals is laughable.

Isn't flightinfo about discussion?

Do you?

Never been better!

Takin' It Back,

-CopilotDoug

PS...

But I like the guy, don't get me wrong..... he's like that cute mutt dog that keeps humping your leg.

Did you just say you like it when dogs hump your leg???

 

[JoeMerchant]

Someone ask Rez why ALPA didn't support PATCO....he won't answer me anymore....:laugh:

We had many former PATCO guys who flew for ASA....and they will never forget the fact that ALPA didn't support PATCO...

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I wouldn't say cnn.com is a fringe news website. Not necessarily the best...but not the worst.

So deft and witty of you.

That...and my goal is not to hijack this thread.

0/2.

Correction...my beef is with ALPA. Prater is the one who sailed into office on the grandiose, if hollow, platform of "Taking It Back"

First off, you are not an ALPA member. ALPA effects you in no way.

Second, he didn't sail into office... you know nothing of politics....

Don't point the finger at me because he is a weak and poor leader.

I never did. Once again that is you trying to make something out of nothing because you understand the issues not.

Until you know what you are talking about Spicoli, you will continue to spin your wheels...

Rez, PATCO was a failure because A) They only got about 75% of the membership to strike B) There was plenty of forewarning of an impending strike, so Reagan had time to formulate a contingency plan. No element of surprise and the solidarity was not there. The APA blinked first over the financial interests of the Union...not the employee group.

Now that you've had time to read up on PATCO.....

Wrong again..... PATCO failed because it was illegal to strike. Regardless of how effective they were, the strike was illegal.

As far as the APA, you can't run an organization without money, son.

However, the ubiquitous point is these unions tried tough guy tactics and failed. In addition, it set a bad precedent for all of us... and still does... Even if we wanted to be tough guys the actions of PATCO and APA have got the opposition on guard

Have any relevant cases where maybe a pilot group pisses on the RLA and walks out without approval from the NMB?

You think an message board moniker such as yourself knows something that union lawyers and labor relation attorneys does not?

Not that I agree with any of the above...but what of the Pilots who do have the first hand experiences? I am not the only guy on here who doesn't like ALPA. What say you to those current members who are disgusted by ALPA? How about MerlinDrvr88? Why don't you address his statements?

We are all disgusted with ALPA. However, you offer no solutions. Or the ones you do offer are about as pragmatic as a hot tub on the space shuttle. It just isn't going to happen. Your broken record gets old. More pilots getting involved and elected proper leaders is viable.

History has proven that when the masses unify, change occurs. We can sit around and be pessimist like you or we can man up and work to effect change despite the fact that we know the union has problems...

I failed to grasp nothing Rez. When are you going to realize that at the end of the day, you're responsible for your own actions?

Another empty accusation on your part.... have another grilled cheese sandwhich.

Isn't flightinfo about discussion?

I've never had a discussion with you. Rather dreaded social "pleasantries" with the Hotsnot nephew at the fringe family reunion...

Never been better!

Why not celebrate then and have Mom cook up another grilled cheese...

Takin' It Back,

-CopilotDoug

PS...

Did you just say you like it when dogs hump your leg???

Why not have her heat up a few pigs in a blanket too.... You deserve it with your "internet victory"