AirTran pilots considering switching unions

[CopilotDoug]

The ability to recall is a good thing and should be exercised when needed. It is a safeguard to unresponsive union officers. And most of all, it is democratic.

I submit that Recall is not a reflection of low membership participation, but reflection of a broken union structure. To point the finger at the membership is irresponsible and a sure way to increase disinterest.

Is a recall justified? If the membership says so...so be it. That's a democracy, right? The will of the people...period. It can be debated whether or not it was for the "right" or "wrong" reason...but that is inconsequential.

The membership can motivate its officers with participation, guidance, support, and direction. The Right to Recall must also not be taken away nor questioned.

What Recalls actually do is ensure motivated and responsive Union Officers, which will make the Union more effective to the benefit of the membership.

Why does the company care? If the Union is 6 months into a 4 year contract...they're obligation to the employees is the same.

 

[Pinkslip]

Think

I think everyone really needs to look at ALPA as a whole unit and start to look at how they can hurt us more than do us good. Look at the latest seniority list integrations. USAIR and DAL. Both are these integrations were flawed, because ALPA's Constitution and bylaws were never addressed. More hurt than good.

All you guys that have been ALPA before think about all the times they have either done you wrong or not done you at all.

If you are DAL, UAL you might be good to be ALPA, but for Airtran, whom will most likely be consumed, probably not.

Teamster has done well representing the mechanics and with a double Teamsters on the property it is a win win selection. The pilots at Airtran are the bus drivers and pepsi truck drivers.

 

[PCL_128]

Teamsters Meet With AirTran Pilots

Union Doesn't Plan To Pursue Official Relationship

December 10, 2008
(Orlando, Fla.) – Capt. David Bourne, Director of the Teamsters Airline Division, met today with the board of directors of the National Pilots Association, the independent pilots union at AirTran Airways Corp. (NYSE: AAI). The NPA is considering representation options for its 1,600 pilots.

"Given the current volatility of the airline industry, and the tendency toward continued consolidation, it is to everyone's benefit that the pilots at AirTran strengthen their own organization before entertaining any other representational possibilities," Bourne said. "We remain in solidarity with our union brothers and sisters at AirTran, and are ready to assist them in their endeavors. However, we are not planning to pursue a more official relationship at this time."

Founded in 1903, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents more than 1.4 million hardworking men and women in the United States and Canada. More than 40,000 new members organized to join the Teamsters this year, more than 20 percent of them into the Teamster Airline Division. The Teamsters are the only growing airline union in the country. Their Airline Division represents the full spectrum of classifications within the aviation industry, including more than 300 airline mechanics at AirTran.

 

[CopilotDoug]

it is to everyone's benefit that the pilots at AirTran strengthen their own organization before entertaining any other representational possibilities

Enough said.

 

[Lear70]

The pilots at Airtran are the bus drivers and pepsi truck drivers.

Don't take this personally, but...

Kiss My A$$.

I didn't go to college 4 years, spend tens of thousands for flight lessons, bust my hump for a decade in crap jobs "paying my dues" to become a bus driver.

You can think of yourself like that if you want to. I put my value a bit above someone who can take a couple week course at Truckmasters and go out with a fresh CDL with no higher education and training.

YMMV

 

[Pinkslip]

Don't take this personally, but...

Kiss My A$$.

I didn't go to college 4 years, spend tens of thousands for flight lessons, bust my hump for a decade in crap jobs "paying my dues" to become a bus driver.

You can think of yourself like that if you want to. I put my value a bit above someone who can take a couple week course at Truckmasters and go out with a fresh CDL with no higher education and training.

YMMV

So you would rather have a glorified union like ALPA make you feel good about your "Bus driver" type contract so that you feel like a real airline pilot in the world as it was once felt?

 

[Lear70]

So you would rather have a glorified union like ALPA make you feel good about your "Bus driver" type contract so that you feel like a real airline pilot in the world as it was once felt?

Nope. I'd rather have a REAL union like ALPA help us get an industry-leading contract so I can enjoy my time with my family and earn what we are worth, helping raise the bar for the rest of the profession in the process.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Nope. I'd rather have a REAL union like ALPA help us get an industry-leading contract so I can enjoy my time with my family and earn what we are worth, helping raise the bar for the rest of the profession in the process.

I'd rather have ALPA be a real union, too. Let me wish in one hand and...well, you know the rest.

 

[Lear70]

I'd rather have ALPA be a real union, too. Let me wish in one hand and...well, you know the rest.

I didn't say anything about wishing.

I was talking about FIGHTING to make it happen...

Had any experience with that? I have.

 

[Pinkslip]

What???

Nope. I'd rather have a REAL union like ALPA help us get an industry-leading contract so I can enjoy my time with my family and earn what we are worth, helping raise the bar for the rest of the profession in the process.

Raise the bar? Since when has ALPA raised a bar? Age 65 not a raise there.
Wages? SCOPE? Nope!

Degraded pay scales over the past 15 years. Yes.
Degraded the profession over the past 15 years. Yes.
Retirement....enough said!

They can't even merge 2 groups through their own Constitution and Bylaws.

ALPA is far from a REAL union. Its a club!

Maybe the guys should look at UAW. That union still upholds their profession!

 

[Lear70]

15 years would encompass the pay raises that USAirways, UAL, and DAL all achieved in 1999/2000. You know, the ones that gave $200k a year plus for SNB CA's and $300k a year plus for LWB CA's? Those pay raises...? Guess those just slipped your mind.

Those were taken away by bankruptcy courts or the VERY REAL threat of 1113(c) bankruptcy hearings by companies in bankruptcy restructuring. NOT by ALPA.

Keep spinning there, Pinkslip. Maybe someone else will drink YOUR koolaid. So far, you haven't offered any concrete reasons against ALPA, just empty rhetoric with no foundation in fact.

Like everyone else who has come on here ranting against ALPA.

 

[Pinkslip]

15 years would encompass the pay raises that USAirways, UAL, and DAL all achieved in 1999/2000. You know, the ones that gave $200k a year plus for SNB CA's and $300k a year plus for LWB CA's? Those pay raises...? Guess those just slipped your mind.

Those were taken away by bankruptcy courts or the VERY REAL threat of 1113(c) bankruptcy hearings by companies in bankruptcy restructuring. NOT by ALPA.

Keep spinning there, Pinkslip. Maybe someone else will drink YOUR koolaid. So far, you haven't offered any concrete reasons against ALPA, just empty rhetoric with no foundation in fact.

Like everyone else who has come on here ranting against ALPA.

So while they reaped the benefits for 2 years they lost the last 13 years overall. Yeah you are right.....yeah!

ALPA produced 100 seat rates that have been raped by the "Regional" flying. Where was ALPA.

Since you got the time there LEAR. Why don't you take a rolling average of ALPA pilot career wages and see where they have gone. Especially in the past 15 years!

With all that said. ALPA has many positive things in the industry. Safety being one of their forefronts of development. But for Airtran guys......I don't think they are the wisest choice.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Where ever ALPA fails, there is sure to be a crowd of ALPA apologists ready with the excuses.

The pro-ALPA rhetoric is just as "empty" as the anti-ALPA rhetoric in that when it comes down to it: Your contracts, pay, benefits, and job security are no more secure under ALPA than any other Union.

If AirTran can't get their OWN boat rowing in the right direction by themselves, no amount of outside help is going to do it for them.

 

[Lear70]

So while they reaped the benefits for 2 years they lost the last 13 years overall. Yeah you are right.....yeah!

ALPA produced 100 seat rates that have been raped by the "Regional" flying. Where was ALPA.

Since you got the time there LEAR. Why don't you take a rolling average of ALPA pilot career wages and see where they have gone. Especially in the past 15 years!

With all that said. ALPA has many positive things in the industry. Safety being one of their forefronts of development. But for Airtran guys......I don't think they are the wisest choice.

OHHHH, I get it now.

So 9/11 was ALPA's fault, too, eh?

As was the decision of multiple bankruptcy judges in 1113(c) filings, right? They went to those judges and said, "Please, will you decimate our contracts? We'd greatly appreciate it."



Obviously neither of you work here or understand our internal politics and company relationship. If you did, this debate might be worth it to debate the specifics of what has happened here in the last several years.

Otherwise,,, you're just not going to get it unless you've had to live it.

p.s. Who said I had the time for anything? I work 21 days a month these days...

 

[CopilotDoug]

Live...to...fight...another...day...

That did wonders for the career.

Otherwise,,, you're just not going to get it unless you've had to live it.

I can agree to that, Lear.