A quick reminder about ACA

[Splert]

Try this link.

http://airlinepilotcontracts.com/Contracts/Delta_Contract_2000.pdf

 

[General Lee]

Russ,

I will look it up and see if I can get you the answer. HeavySet is right though, we don't really want to compete against one of our codeshare partners. This could also happen if Skywest were to get 100 seaters and try to fly them on the West Coast. We like partners, not competitors. It will be interesting.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Rotorhead]

One thing to remember about the scope in the DALPA PWA, it is a contract between DALPA and Delta. There is another contract involved, the contract between ACA and Delta.

ACA may be in full compliance with its contract with Delta and the details of such contract may have slipped beneath the radar of DALPAs PWA.

Looking at the date of the PWA, June 21, 2001 the ACA contract(circa spring 2000) predates this document and would likley have some sort of legal precedent. It is a 10 year agreement that Delta entered in to before the current PWA.

Unless there is a clause holding ACA to the details of the DALPA PWA in its contract with Delta, there may be wiggle room here. I do not have access to the language, as I doubt any on this board do.

Since this plan to go alone has been shared with Delta I think this might have been addressed and Delta does not consider it an issue.

If not, and ACA has to eat the leases on 30 of the 328's, it will go down as one of the greatest airline management blunders of all time.

 

[inthepool]

how many people here honestly believe ACA's management hasn't already considered the Delta flying? It's obvious that ACA has thoughtfully researched and carefully planned their moves, so what leads anyone to believe that they "forgot" or "overlooked" the DCI flying? Skeen himself says the DCI flying will go on business as usual, which to me says there is either a loophole, or ACA's contract with DL predates the scope and was grandfathered in. Remember, while a lot of us on this board think we know everything, the reality of the matter is we NEVER have all the information...

 

[NYRANGERS]

how many people here honestly believe ACA's management hasn't already considered the Delta flying? It's obvious that ACA has thoughtfully researched and carefully planned their moves, so what leads anyone to believe that they "forgot" or "overlooked" the DCI flying? Skeen himself says the DCI flying will go on business as usual, which to me says there is either a loophole, or ACA's contract with DL predates the scope and was grandfathered in. Remember, while a lot of us on this board think we know everything, the reality of the matter is we NEVER have all the information...

They may have considered it, but our contract is pretty clear on this subject (about the only place it is clear). They can try to operate business as usual, they have nothing to loose, our contract only provides for a grievance. However it is very clear that this would violate our PWA and once an arbitrator ruled this relationship would be over.

That said......what makes you think Delta would want to provide a fee for departure to an airline that intends to directly compete with them? You may be surprised at Delta's response in the next few days.

I wish you ACA guys the best of luck, this could be an exciting new direction for you.

 

[FlyDeltasJets]

Use Splerts link. Pay particular attention to Section 1 D 2 c.

Seems pretty clear to me. Doesn't say anything about granfather clauses, force majeure, "reviewing" anything, etc.

They are only allowed to codeshare with carriers that operate airplanes larger than 70 seats with our permission.

 

[Carl_Everett]

I think the point being made about ACA's contract predating the PWA is not about the scope issue. It is about the contract between ACA and DAL and the poison pill involvong the 328's.

If the ACA contract was agreed to prior to the PWA, it would be DAL's burden if DALPA doesn't allow ACA to continue due to the larger aircraft being flown. This being said, DAL would have to eat the 328 leases if DALPA doesn't allow ACA to continue with DAL.

I seriously doubt ACA management would agree to any code-share agreement with language regarding future PWA's between DAL and DALPA.

 

[46Driver]

The question is: who is Delta's bigger competitor - ACA as a small, new LCC or full size United? I would think that Delta management must be licking their chops at ACA trying to torpedo United for good and then picking up large chunks of United's route structure. Just an observation.

 

[vc10]

Relative to the DL scope clause, ACA will simply use a difference certificate to fly the independent service from the Dorkjet service.

From the point of view of the DL ALPA contract, if the Dorkjets are at ACJet but the 737s are at ACA, there's no problem.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ACA may choose to challenge the Delta pilots' PWA on this "non-compete" clause. The wording is a clear violation of anti-trust laws and spurns competition. Remember, a contract for an illegal purpose is not enforceable.

 

[Khirsah]

I don't have a law degree, and I'm not a lawyer, but I'd like to pose a question and see if anyone with some more experience in the matter can chime in.

Section 28 B: Effect on Other Agreements expressly forbids the grandfathering in of previous agreements between DAL and DALPA (except the 2 mentioned). Does this imply (in terms of contract law) that agreements between DAL and an Affiliate (ACA), may be grandfathered in, since it is not expressly forbidden?

In other words, since the contract takes the stance of expressly forbidding the grandfathering of certain things, is the lack of expressly forbidding the grandfathering of other agreements an implied consent to grandfather them in?

Edit: This, of course, would only apply if the DAL/ACA agreement allowed ACA to operate 70+ seat aircraft outside of the DAL codeshare.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

When can you not try to protect yourself? A contract is a contract. We just told Leo that. If ACA becomes direct competition for us, I am sure Delta would stop paying for their continued success at our expense. (CVG)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Fins,

When can you not try to protect yourself? A contract is a contract. We just told Leo that. If ACA becomes direct competition for us, I am sure Delta would stop paying for their continued success at our expense. (CVG)


Bye Bye--General Lee

... And eat our 328 leases.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Oh, and one more thing ...


THANK YOU MESA!!!!

 

[N2264J]

A quick reminder...

...what makes you think Delta would want to provide a fee for departure to an airline that intends to directly compete with them?

Are you saying that Delta doesn't compete with Northwest
and Continental?

They both fly airplanes with more than 100 seats so why would ACA 737s be any different?