A quick reminder about ACA

[FlyDeltasJets]

Use Splerts link. Pay particular attention to Section 1 D 2 c.

Seems pretty clear to me. Doesn't say anything about granfather clauses, force majeure, "reviewing" anything, etc.

They are only allowed to codeshare with carriers that operate airplanes larger than 70 seats with our permission.

 

[Carl_Everett]

I think the point being made about ACA's contract predating the PWA is not about the scope issue. It is about the contract between ACA and DAL and the poison pill involvong the 328's.

If the ACA contract was agreed to prior to the PWA, it would be DAL's burden if DALPA doesn't allow ACA to continue due to the larger aircraft being flown. This being said, DAL would have to eat the 328 leases if DALPA doesn't allow ACA to continue with DAL.

I seriously doubt ACA management would agree to any code-share agreement with language regarding future PWA's between DAL and DALPA.

 

[46Driver]

The question is: who is Delta's bigger competitor - ACA as a small, new LCC or full size United? I would think that Delta management must be licking their chops at ACA trying to torpedo United for good and then picking up large chunks of United's route structure. Just an observation.

 

[vc10]

Relative to the DL scope clause, ACA will simply use a difference certificate to fly the independent service from the Dorkjet service.

From the point of view of the DL ALPA contract, if the Dorkjets are at ACJet but the 737s are at ACA, there's no problem.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ACA may choose to challenge the Delta pilots' PWA on this "non-compete" clause. The wording is a clear violation of anti-trust laws and spurns competition. Remember, a contract for an illegal purpose is not enforceable.

 

[Khirsah]

I don't have a law degree, and I'm not a lawyer, but I'd like to pose a question and see if anyone with some more experience in the matter can chime in.

Section 28 B: Effect on Other Agreements expressly forbids the grandfathering in of previous agreements between DAL and DALPA (except the 2 mentioned). Does this imply (in terms of contract law) that agreements between DAL and an Affiliate (ACA), may be grandfathered in, since it is not expressly forbidden?

In other words, since the contract takes the stance of expressly forbidding the grandfathering of certain things, is the lack of expressly forbidding the grandfathering of other agreements an implied consent to grandfather them in?

Edit: This, of course, would only apply if the DAL/ACA agreement allowed ACA to operate 70+ seat aircraft outside of the DAL codeshare.

 

[General Lee]

Fins,

When can you not try to protect yourself? A contract is a contract. We just told Leo that. If ACA becomes direct competition for us, I am sure Delta would stop paying for their continued success at our expense. (CVG)


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Fins,

When can you not try to protect yourself? A contract is a contract. We just told Leo that. If ACA becomes direct competition for us, I am sure Delta would stop paying for their continued success at our expense. (CVG)


Bye Bye--General Lee

... And eat our 328 leases.

 

[DarnNearaJet]

Oh, and one more thing ...


THANK YOU MESA!!!!

 

[N2264J]

A quick reminder...

...what makes you think Delta would want to provide a fee for departure to an airline that intends to directly compete with them?

Are you saying that Delta doesn't compete with Northwest
and Continental?

They both fly airplanes with more than 100 seats so why would ACA 737s be any different?

 

[General Lee]

Our code share agreement helps us, not hurts us. We will carry apssengers from their planes---like passengers from ASIA on NW will connect in DTW on us or NW to ATL--and then onto our waiting planes to Nassau etc. We do compete with them, but will benefit to the tune of about $200 million extra profit each year supposedly. If ACA were a direct competitor and hurting our profits by lowering the fares on the east coast--I don't think Delta would like that.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[~~~^~~~]

When can you not try to protect yourself? A contract is a contract. We just told Leo that. If ACA becomes direct competition for us, I am sure Delta would stop paying for their continued success at our expense. (CVG)


Bye Bye--General Lee

So you are saying that it your could contract a hit on Delta Connection pilots and it would be "legal" because it is a "contract?" Hmm, why don't crack dealers follow up on their bad debts in small claims court insted of shooting each other?

Could it be that one of the five criteria for enforceability of a contract is a legal purpose. Come on, this is business law 101 stuff.

Section 1 of the Sherman Antitrust Act begins, "Every contract, combination, or conspiracy in restraint of trade, or commerce... is illegal and constitutes a felony." There are exemptions to the Sherman Act, allowing labor to come together under a union to form a monopoly on labor. However, the Courts have been specific that these labor agreements can not serve as a horizontal restraint of trade amongst competitive businesses, or can they allow businesses to divide the market.

Just because the FTC has ceeded airline regulation to the DOJ under their clearance agreement and the DOJ has been too busy chasing terrorists to strike down your illegal scope, don't think for a second ACA's attorneys would be as distracted as Mr. John Ashcroft, Esq.

 

[g159av8tor]

Such animosity!

 

[KingAirKiddo]

Not ANOTHER freaking RJDC thread! Make it stop



G159...love the picture on your profile!

 

[House_X]

General Lee,

If Delta get's pissed off...big F'g deal. Boeing, Airbus, Embrear etc. would be more than happy to take the leases off of our hands after we order our large pile of jets...last time I checked Boeing was laying off 5000 workers...I'm sure Boeing (and Airbus) would love OUR business. Or we could use the 328's in Dulles to fly 41 routes.

Don't underestimate Skeen...

 

[ACE]

If Delta get's pissed off...big F'g deal. Boeing, Airbus, Embrear etc. would be more than happy to take the leases off of our hands after we order our large pile of jets...last time I checked Boeing was laying off 5000 workers...I'm sure Boeing (and Airbus) would love OUR business. Or we could use the 328's in Dulles to fly 41 routes.

Personally, I think you guys are on a sugar high from too much kool aid. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I just hope no more of you ACA guys are furloughed because of this.

 

[House_X]

Yeah....United's Kool-Aid is much better than ACA's...

I'll take a quart of United "bankrupt punch" with a shot of "Chapter 12 with no vasaline".

I'd rather fly standing up than be furloughed on my knees...I'm ready to compete!!!