A Question for Blue-Aid Drinkers?

[Tripower455]

Why is it a dumb idea? Is it better to mess up your body clock. Is it worse than commuting in one the same day and then doing a redeye transcon or "pond" jump. Both of which is done frquently by crewmembers.

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but..........

Jeez, it seems that the Kool Aid over at Jet Blue is even more potent than the stuff that SWApA pours!

Commuting is a CHOICE made by an individual pilot. What you are suggesting could, IMHO, lead to an FAA RULE CHANGE that will adversely affect the rest of the industry. As another SWA pilot said, BWI, MDW, MCI, PHX, LAX, MCI, BWI type days will become very real. Those 8 leggers are bad enough when you never leave the Nation of TX.

There are very few times when the 8/24 rule is worse for pilots than say a 12/24 rule. Heck, I'm beat after those 7:59 days with a few A/C swaps.....

Hopefully it won't happen....

 

[FlyingFarmer]

The Lazarus Thread is Raised

Folks,

I think this thread has been whipped on more than most of my ex wives.

post deleted

 

[RShebib]

Re: The Lazarus Thread is Raised

The fact that a large and rapidly growing number of pilots are "packin'" has got to be some kind of deterent against Habib trying 9/11 again, right ?

Unless you're on a JB A/C.


Please somebody, say it aint' so!

What difference does it make if the door can/can not get broken into when, pilots leave the cockpit during the flight all the time...if I'm a terrorist (no last name jokes please ) then I'd just wait for the pilot to come out and gain access then.....guess this is when the guns/tasers in the cockpit discussion would begin for me....

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Shebib!?

post deleted

 

[Dizel8]

Flying Farmer,

I can neither confirm nor deny your info, however, your statements concerning jetBlue are in error and this is a rather safety sensitive inquiry, so lets leave it at that

 

[JayDub]

Re: The Lazarus Thread is Raised

Folks,

I think this thread has been whipped on more than most of my ex wives.

BUT

as long as I'm actually bothering to post on something I have to ask the question, I was talking to an armed guy on the JS the other day, is it true that NOT ONE SINGLE PILOT at JB is flying armed? (the Jblue guys are probably too busy picking gum outta' the seats) anyway, this guy said that Needlemyer put out an email stating that he didn't want any of his "boys" packing heat, because he thought that the airbus door could stop ANY intruder. YGTBSM?!? So this guy, a bus drvr, says HE thinks that all it takes is a pair of alligator clips and a 12 volt battery to open the door. I don't care where you are on the arming pilot issue, but c'mon!! The fact that a large and rapidly growing number of pilots are "packin'" has got to be some kind of deterent against a "TERRORIST" trying 9/11 again, right ?

Unless you're on a JB A/C.


Please somebody, say it aint' so!

FF



Perhaps this deserves a thread of it's own.

Farmer,

Tom Clancy ain't got sh*! on you when it comes to writing fiction. First and foremost, per my understanding, if he's armed and on the JS, either you, he, or both, can't read policy. His weapon should be in the cargo bin.

I have no idea if, or how many B6 folks are "packing". In fact, to know that is supposed to be privy to more info than myself (and I bet you) could possibly know. In fact who and for whom they are "packing" is supposed to be a big secret. Hence, no one can figure out where and when an FFDO might show up.

Secondly, I bet it is incomprehensible to you that anyone in management would send a survey, via e-mail, to see what the majority of the pilot group wants. Let alone, Gawd forbid, over 50%, 60%, even 70% wouldn't want to participate!!!! No, it's so much easier to perpetuate false innuendo.


Third; you don't need to worry at all about the reinforced door to get into the cockpit of any airliner these days, much less on an Airbus. Period, dot, end of sentence.

Tripower455,
Please re-read typhoonpilot's post. The more legs you do, the less flight time in a day you are allowed per the requirements of the regulations which he is subject to. It is these regulations (per my understanding) B6's application is based upon. In fact, eight legs in a day would be far outside the guidelines of this proposal.

In the end all the airline wants to do (per my understanding) is conduct research. Then again, why would anyone want to actually do that??? Heck, they can just ask a few select members of this forum for all the answers they need. I bet you could even come up with "the" cure for cancer or any other social ills, if pressed. Research, smeasearch... right?

Respectfully,

JayDub

 

[Tripower455]

Please re-read typhoonpilot's post. The more legs you do, the less flight time in a day you are allowed per the requirements of the regulations which he is subject to. It is these regulations (per my understanding) B6's application is based upon. In fact, eight legs in a day would be far outside the guidelines of this proposal.

I'll admit that the finer points of the post went by me. In my experience, these things have a way of coming back to haunt those that wanted them the most.

The language had better be absolutely black and white (unlikely)as to when and how this exemption applies, because if it is the least bit gray, management WILL interpret/exploit it, to the detriment of the pilots. Don't think that Jet Blue's management will be any different, either. They are closely modeled after SWA, right?

 

[JayDub]

.

Don't think that Jet Blue's management will be any different, either. They are closely modeled after SWA, right?

As a matter of fact, Neeleman was fired by Herb for "philosophical differences" as I understand it.

I appreciate you concerns. With that said, we have to see a proposal before anyone can make a judgment.




Respectfully,


JayDub

 

[Intruder One]

Jet Blue are pro's in the race to the bottom........and the sad part is they don't care or are too stupid or inexperienced to know the difference.

 

[Dizel8]

Intruder One,

Nice to know you care I will be sure to consider your opinion, along with the
other nuggets of gold from you like these:

"I'm sorry I just do not like to fly with women pilots.Most of them fly OK it just seems odd.Do most men completely trust the wife or girlfriend when shes driving a car........you know what I mean."

"Make sure you have a DUI it seems to help!"

 

[FlyingFarmer]

TOM CLANCY?!

it's not fiction,

but it appears that you and I have philisophical differences on this issue. Please note I said "appears".

I' m deleting the previous post. JD, please delete your
quotes of what I said regarding the former subject.

Shebib as well.

just please consider,

I think I read it on this message board.....

"in order for evil to triumph, all good men must do...
is nothing"

FF

 

[Intruder One]

Dizel8...............You need to get a life!

 

[jjp]

Hey Guys!

Rumour control please........
I "heard" that you guys are seeking FAR
modification for domestic 8 in 24 in order to do
.........Transcon one day trips.....???

Is this true?


FF

You jetBlue guys are a bunch of whores. Period.

Hawaiian Airlines tried to pull this crap about a year ago. It was supported by their pilot group and in fact, a pilot developed the system. He also tried to patent it. I'm not kidding. The site is

www.schedulewithsafety.com

I'm not kidding. That's the URL.

I am sick and tired of jetBlue whoring themselves off and putting even more pressure on our work rules. You idiots need to get a clue. That would be a great name for one of your jets. "Clueless Blue"

 

[Eagleflip]

You jetBlue guys are a bunch of whores. Period.

Nice language. You kiss your mother with that mouth, jjp?

I'm not going to get into a debate with anyone on this topic, for it seems that we'd be more likely to agree on abortion or our favorite BBQ place before we'd agree on extending the 8 hour rule...

At the very least, I'd like to think we could discuss the topic without reverting to name calling.

Just MHO...

 

[crazee8]

At first I thought this was a cool idea, but after analyzing it - I don't like it.

I have lost faith and believe safety is just the line being fed to the FAA. There are just too many reasons why the most senior amongst us want it for personal scheduling reasons - who cares about safety.

Just my opinion.

 

[Hutcha]

What is the big benefit to management? As I see it, all they save is the hotel cost for two pilots and a little per diem. This doesn't require fewer pilots to run the schedule. The airline won't save a ton of money, but the pilots will be more productive. This benefits the pilot group more so than the airline.

Let's recap...
30 in 7 to remain
100 in 30 to remain
1000 in a year to remain
Duty day limits to remain (or poss be shortened)
Limited to 2 legs a day
Limited to normal waking hours
Maybe a limit to prevent flying these trips in two consecutive days.

I've flown plenty of 14-15 hour days that had 4-6 legs, and that is much more fatiguing than a 13 hr day with 2 legs.

 

[FNG320]

What you guys fail to realize is that eventually ALL airline mangements will try and exploit this to their advantage. If you guys are truly supporting this, I guess it is true there is a thing called Blue Kool Aid.

Thanks a lot guys. Enjoy the wrath of your peers over this.

Exemption my ass.

Bman,
I am the last one to be accused of drinking the kool aid, but I support the plan. Read my other posts, it is a win-win-win-win situation. It is only a lose-lose-lose to those that hate change, or for those that like rigged trips, or those who don't want to be at home with the wife and kids.

Just my opinion...

FNG

 

[FNG320]

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-atch
How about 8 hrs. flight time and a 12 hr. duty day......That sounds better..



Sounds great, but can't be done. Only the top 10% of pilots get such a schedule. Not even JB can get the average productivity up to 7-8 hours. Like I said, it sounds great, but is not do-able.

However if you could do any two legs and get anywhere between 9-11 hours per day, in a 14 hour day, that would be great. Remember any two legs. Would not have to be a Transcon. How about JFK-FLL-LGB ron LGB-FLL-JFK. That would be about 9 hours per day and 18 for the trip. With a duty day of less than 12. One more good day trip and you have 26 hours in three days. Net result would be 80-90 hours in 10-11 days, with shorter duty days than doing four legs JFK-FLL-JFK-BUF-JFK to get 8 hours in a 14 hour day.

Now if you did true transcons, JFK-SEA-JFK and get 11.5 hours in 14 hours, and then do it again you get 23 hours in 2 days. Just add a 3rd day of 5-6 hours and get 29 hours in three days. Thats 85-90 hours in 9 days. with only 14 hour duty days.

Everyone needs to remember that the hours per pilot does not change (30 in 7, 100 per month, 1000 per year). Thus the number of pilots needed by each airline remains the same. But we become more productive and get more time off, more rest per layover and more days off. If you only want the minimum number of hours, you could get your hours in 7 days and have 23 days off! Sounds like a win-win-win-win for everyone.

Win for the pilot (see above), win for the company (reduces layovers, perdiem and hotel costs) helping with cost and saves your paycheck from cuts, and win for the unions by no reduction in the number of pilots to pay dues, win for the commuters as this waiver would not affect them. I guess the only loser are the guys who like to bid rigged trips as there would be no need to rig a trip. (but again saving the companies money and your job/paycheck)

But just my opinion...

FNG

 

[Flechas]

Talk about resurrection!!

 

[Captain Overs]

I am sure you meant trying to change some of them. If you are happy flying your ass off for your wages fine. It is not a question of bemoaning your company or it's policies, but a blatent attempt to change a FAR that has an unlimited potential for abuse. You guys are more in dreamland than I thought if you don't think other managements will exploit this rule. The FAR's are a joke as they stand now and you want to relax them even further?

I guess that you are all so enamored to be flying for a living you can't see the true consequences and ramifications of your actions for the rest of your peers within the industry.

The race to the bottom continues.

This is the purpose of a Union, to stop crap like this from happening. Oh wait....Jet Blue doesn't have one!