A Question for Blue-Aid Drinkers?

[jetblue320]

Ditto

NY, such a nice guy. Hoping jetBlue gets in deep dodo, so we can have more pilots out on the street. jetBlue failing would surely elevate everyones else wages and QOL, who knows, perhaps everyone would get recalled.

Sorry NY, but hoping that jetBlue fails because of this is just plain sad and worse, it goes to show what kind of person you are.

That's ok D8, let them rant and rave about how we have fouled up everything for them. It's kinda like the SW guys who ruined this industry before we came around. These guys are just downright negative people and it scares them to see anybody try to be productive. I mean, afterall, they got theirs right, screw everybody else. This is from guys who wouldn't give up a dime to save their "union" bro's who are coming to JB because they are unemployed. Turnabout is fair play you know.

Geez, and we have been accused of being bitter!

 

[NYRANGERS]

NY, such a nice guy. Hoping jetBlue gets in deep dodo, so we can have more pilots out on the street. jetBlue failing would surely elevate everyones else wages and QOL, who knows, perhaps everyone would get recalled.

Sorry NY, but hoping that jetBlue fails because of this is just plain sad and worse, it goes to show what kind of person you are.

Give me a break. I have many good friends at jetBlue (one in management..GH) and I have been very impressed with your company. This is not the issue, so try not to use silly techniques to argue your point.

I have been furloughed for quite some time....so believe me, it WOULD upset me so see any pilots on the street. Try to be careful of what you are accusing me of.

Take care and fly safe,

NYR

 

[General Lee]

Whether or not NYR wants Jetblue to fail----this whole subject is really that JB pilots want to change a rule that was made to protect pilots from fatigue. You can't get away from looking like giant boobs.


46drvr,

If we were to get a paycut coming up here, I bet the jumpseat thing will be on the table. We can't really negotiate that right now because we are refusing the large 31% paycuts the company is telling us we need to take. Can you see that we have our plates kind of full right now? How about we give up the pay and bring the bar even lower, but in return we get unlimited jumpseats on full airplanes..... We are working on it, but for now we are happy with a jumpseat (or 2 on planes with 2 jumpseats---777, 764, 767ER, MD11).

Bye bye--General Lee

 

[Blue Dude]

Look, General, you and I both know there's nothing magic about 8 hrs of flying. In certain circumstances, 6 hrs of flying can be more fatiguing than 12. Address that, why don't you?

And as G4G5 has pointed out, there's already a legal exemption to the flight time limits. But even the vaunted relief pilot scheme isn't a very good fix. Sure you have three pilots, but only two on duty at a time. What's the third pilot do? He languishes on a jumpseat or more likely in a passenger seat. Is he really becoming adequately rested or just marking time? Unknown and unknowable. The regular pilots being relieved are in the same boat. One third of the time they are off flying duty, but that flying duty they are being pulled from consists mainly of monitoring systems and checking in with center. Instead of keeping mildly alert in a comfortable seat, instead they might be able catch a catnap in a less comfortable seat, distracted by all that goes on in the cabin. Heck of a way to "exempt" yourself from flight time limits, isn't it? Seems to me a better way is to limit such exposure to times when you're physiologically alert anyway, and stay occupied with what amounts to light duty. If you disagree, then don't bid those lines. I don't bid redeyes because I don't tolerate them very well (I'm usually too tired to enjoy my day off after flying them), but some pilots love them.

IMHO, the relief pilot scheme is only an acceptable "exemption" to most pilots and pilot groups because it employs more pilots, not because it's inherently safer that way. Same for other augmented crew schemes, though long haul airlines absolutely depend on them. If you were really serious about ensuring adequate rest (as opposed to merely getting paid to sleep in a bunk or a seat), you'd insist that every long haul flight swap crews halfway at a tech stop. Instead you attack another solution that may well be more sound from a physiological standpoint because it's "Not Invented Here", it'll affect the competitive balance and it may become a talking point in your next negotiations. I'm sorry if I have a hard time mustering much sympathy.

 

[furloughed dude]

I think being able to work 11 hours in one duty period is great. At my last airline, I had many 14 hour days with 6 legs. This at a airline that was supposed to have a pretty decent contract (NWA). To me the biggest factor is duty period, not how much time you fly in a day. Those days where you have multiple 2 hour sits certainly don't make me feel rested. I would rather limit my time away from home. The bottom line is not to screw with the length of duty..

Great job JB guys. I think this is a welcome change.

 

[NYRANGERS]

The bottom line is not to screw with the length of duty..

Great job JB guys. I think this is a welcome change.

And where does that start?.........with an 8 in 24 extention. Maybe not this year or next........but it's a start.

 

[Dizel8]

NY said:
"Here is an indirect way to stop jetBlue's push for unsafe skies............(ie. 8 hour rule extension) yea yea whatever...it's only an exemption for you.....B.S!"

"Push for unsafe skies, ie 8 hr?" What other thing does jetBlue do, that you consider unsafe? I mean, on one hand you say that you have friends here, know people in mgmnt and think its a good company, yet you feel here that are unsafe! I must be missing something.


46Drvr,

Just like Delta was happy with no jumpseats. I doubt the Dear Gen. is pushing the bar for anyone but himself.

 

[NYRANGERS]

NY said:
"Here is an indirect way to stop jetBlue's push for unsafe skies............(ie. 8 hour rule extension) yea yea whatever...it's only an exemption for you.....B.S!"

"Push for unsafe skies, ie 8 hr?" What other thing does jetBlue do, that you consider unsafe? I mean, on one hand you say that you have friends here, know people in mgmnt and think its a good company, yet you feel here that are unsafe! I must be missing something.

In my opinion, increasing the number of hours one can fly in a day is unsafe, that is what I was refering to (if you know of any others feel free to share). What, may I ask does that have to do with me having friends at jetBlue?

Remember, this is not about me. I have nothing to do with the release of personal data or changing the 8 hour rule.

How you feel about me is irrelevant. If you are to accuse me of anything.....make it bad spelling.

Take care Dizel,

NYR

 

[Boeingman]

Folks,

There is one element you are missing here; time and a half for over time.

And that is supposed to make it safer? So it's a money issue?

1. That's why guys don't mind flying 12 days instead of 10. They already have their part-time gig, they don't need to be working their___ off like Boeing Man.

You have it backwards. I don't work my ass off. I have made a fortune on the side, thankfully.

2. If your contract is already affected by mine, why aren't you getting time and a half for over time? I do, and if it's as trickle down as you say, you should be getting time and a half for everything over guarantee.

You're running off on a tangent here. The problem lies that you're fooling with pandoras box. And yes Blue dude, it does effect everyone. Just because you and your pilots want to blow managment doesn't make it a good deal for those in the industry trying to keep the bar up.

Lastly, there are limitations.. from what I understand, if there are delays, a relief crew will be provided at the out station. Also, if the plan deviates at all, the aircraft stops right where it is. Then again, this is all in the planning stages. If we were privy to every idea your companys' were planning, maybe we could judge you, too.

So where are these relief crews going to be? You're telling me JB is going to staff relief crews in case of unforseen problems? That is the dumbest thing I have heard in a long time, and I seriously doubt it would happen from an economics standpoint. Sounds like smoke and mirrors to get you guys to buy off on this productivity bonanza. I mean management productivity bonanza.

Aircraft stops right where it is? LOL, point you're missing is eventually management will get that changed as well.

I have a bridge for sale if any of you blue dudes are interested.

 

[jetblue320]

And that is supposed to make it safer? So it's a money issue?

Aircraft stops right where it is? LOL, point you're missing is eventually management will get that changed as well.

I have a bridge for sale if any of you blue dudes are interested.

Apparently you haven't been reading closely. jetBlue Management is not the one trying to push this thing, it's us, the pilots, and we are not trying to change the rule, just merely get one portion of it (being able to fly a transcon during daylight hours as a turn) permitted. The folks that are doing all of the ground work with the FAA are not upper level management, they are working stiffs.

And to the guy who posted that ALPA should put a stop to this; well, I heard they did file a blocking motion of some sort, don't know the finite details, but their efforts were fruitless. The FAA is still reviewing our request.

Happy trails.