Blue Dude said:
Boeingman,
Again, there is no domestic 8 hr limit in 24 rule. The 8 hr limit is between rest periods, not in a 24 hr period. You can't quote chapter and verse to support your claim, but I can: 14CFR 121.471. It says:
quote:
§ 121.471 Flight Time Limitations and Rest Requirements:
All Flight Crewmembers
(a) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time in scheduled air transportation or in other commercial flying if that crewmember’s total flight time in all commercial flying will exceed –
(1) 1,000 hours in any calendar year;
(2) 100 hours in any calendar month;
(3) 30 hours in any 7 consecutive days;
(4) 8 hours between required rest periods.
Which is what I said in my post, if you'd bothered to read it. Honestly, for such a high time airline pilot, I expected a little better comprehension of the rules you supposedly follow every day. Be very sure you know what you're saying before you jump down my throat next time.
Poor baby. Did you consider that I was “jumping down your throat” because I said “I beg to differ”? Are we a bit hypersensitive here? Yes, I think so.
If you bother to read the following paragraph, the 8/ 24 hour is a limitation because it is a lookback provision. So in essence it becomes limitation but being the simpleton that you are, I can see how it would confuse you by just quoting the above verbatim. There is a difference in scheduled and actual limits. Obviously you have a partial grasp on this concept evidenced by your rambling to another poster about this.
Like I said before, and you convienently ignored, if there was no 8/24 you blue boys could fly all the transcons your little hearts desired and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
(b) Except as provided in paragraph (c) of this section, no certificate holder conducting domestic operations may schedule a flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept an assignment for flight time during the 24 consecutive hours preceding the scheduled completion of any flight segment without a scheduled rest period during that 24 hours of at least the following:
(1) 9 consecutive hours of rest for less than 8 hours of scheduled flight time.
(2) 10 consecutive hours of rest for 8 or more but less than 9 hours of scheduled flight time.
(3) 11 consecutive hours of rest for 9 or more hours of scheduled flight time.
(c) A certificate holder may schedule a flight crewmember for less than the rest required in paragraph (b) of this section or may reduce a scheduled rest under the following conditions:
(1) A rest required under paragraph (b)(1) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 10 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.
(2) A rest required under paragraph (b)(2) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 8 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 11 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.
(3) A rest required under paragraph (b)(3) of this section may be scheduled for or reduced to a minimum of 9 hours if the flight crewmember is given a rest period of at least 12 hours that must begin no later than 24 hours after the commencement of the reduced rest period.
(4) No certificate holder may assign, nor may any flight crewmember perform any flight time with the certificate holder unless the flight crewmember has had at least the minimum rest required under this paragraph.
(d) Each certificate holder conducting domestic operations shall relieve each flight crewmember engaged in scheduled air transportation from all further duty for at least 24 consecutive hours during any 7 consecutive days.
(e) No certificate holder conducting domestic operations may assign any flight crewmember and no flight crewmember may accept assignment to any duty with the air carrier during any required rest period.
(f) Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that a certificate holder requires of a flight crewmember and provides to transport the crewmember to an airport at which he is to serve on a flight as a crewmember, or from an airport at which he was relieved from duty to return to his home station, is not considered part of a rest period.
(g) A flight crewmember is not considered to be scheduled for flight time in excess of flight time limitations if the flights to which he is assigned are scheduled and normally terminate within the limitations, but due to circumstances beyond the control of the certificate holder (such as adverse weather conditions), are not at the time of departure expected to reach their destination within the scheduled time.
[Doc. No. 23634, 50 FR 29319, July 18, 1985, as amended by Amdt. 121-253
Blue Dude said:
Wasn't discussing competitive advantage. I was discussing QOL and safety. I understand that any sort of exemption that provides a significant advantage may have to be matched by other airlines, but I think such an advantage here would be pretty marginal. There aren't all that many flights that would apply to this kind of scheduling with all the restrictions that would be placed on it. For instance, you couldn't stack a lot of shorthauls in there (too many legs) and redeyes wouldn't count (too late). It would help JetBlue a proportionally greater amount than most airlines since so much of our lift is transcon, and our average stage length is long. SWA or AAI for instance would benefit very little since they have a much greater of percentage of shorthauls. It probably wouldn't even be worth pursuing for them.
For other airlines, well, that's what your contracts are for. I don't remember you guys caring much about improving our QOL, so I guess we'll take care of that ourselves. If that affects your next negotiations, then that's frankly your problem. For all the talk about us doing something for the "profession" (a nebulous, poorly defined entity), you never seem to say when the profession will return the favor. In reality, it's every pilot group for itself. There has not been true unity among pilots groups in my lifetime, and it may never have existed. Don't preach to me about holding the line when you sell your own union brothers down the river with many contracts and side letters you sign.
I acknowledge a debt to contracts past for setting an acceptable range of pay rates and work rules. But don't expect slavish devotion to the status quo in every issue simply because it may affect other pilot groups. They're not my problem. This pilot group and improving QOL here is my problem. And if you people were at all honest with yourselves, you'd see that when it matters you already act in the same way.
I’ll let G man pick this one apart, but in its entirety it is simply breathtaking. There is another group of individuals with this type of thinking within the industry. You sound no different that a SCAB with your opportunistic me me me me me me me thought process Really and truly disgusting.
